custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread

[weirdybeardy]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! I agree with Simon about the steel placement looking a bit ugly, but you understand the position I was in: any less steel and the level would become too easy; any more steel and it would look silly and pointless (for a good example of silly and pointless, look at my other Polar level).  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

@geoo: Your solution is an interesting variation on my intended, but it's close enough for me to say that it isn't a backroute.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> I tried for the simple approach this time, and I'm glad it seems to work! I feel like I've built a level that feels more-or-less at home among the standard of the official L2 game.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[Simon]

Alright, geoo has forewarnend you all... true L2 late-night stuff ahead, built like 2 hours after I usually go to bed.

The first level is 16:9 is a Dumb Ratio, and it can be treated and solved like a regular level.

The second level is Immediately Give Up. Do not attempt to solve this. Neither geoo nor me has successfully managed to do it yet. I wouldn't have released this level at all if geoo hadn't told me he would do so otherwise... The most interesting thing would be ccexplore having a go at this level, and judging with all his wisdom whether it can be solved at all. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Feel free to lower the release rate and add any necessary skills.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> 

Ha, and here I was thinking, I'm already days behind with my work (you might've noticed my absence the past 2 or 3 days despite the new L2 levels), and was even considering going into work over the weekend.  So much for that plan. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  (Actually, we'll see.)

I'll take a brief look at I.G.U., but I might have to put off any serious effort into it until middle of next week.

In the meanwhile, I did solve both weirdy's and Simon's levels, or at least find a solution (in one case solutions) to them, intended or not who knows.  Both levels are excellent and appropriately stimulating (I'd daresay actually a bit challenging). http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I'll post or PM more on those levels later.

[edit: yikes!  So it's all about the nasty execution. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> Um, yeah, I might have to pass on that for now.  Maybe just one or two tries and see just how bad it is]

[ccexplore]

The second level is Immediately Give Up. Do not attempt to solve this. Neither geoo nor me has successfully managed to do it yet. I wouldn't have released this level at all if geoo hadn't told me he would do so otherwise... The most interesting thing would be ccexplore having a go at this level, and judging with all his wisdom whether it can be solved at all.

Ok, that was much easier than it looks.  Not only did I solve it, but I solved it on my first try without any restarts.  I might even consider re-attempting it with the climbers replaced with rock climbers and see what happens (though that might perhaps be a bit of a stretch).

(Now of course, if one is not allowed to pause, then that's a whole different ballgame altogether.)

[ccexplore]

Here's also a http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/7/15/2915232//IGUsol.avi" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">DOSBox video (35.6 MB) for "Immediately Give Up".

I probably got a little lucky to have gotten it on the very first try, that said, it's really not that bad at all (after all, I'm willing to do it a second time just to make the video, and would've done it sooner if I didn't need to sleep).  There are really only about 3-4 places that are a little hairy.

[Simon]

Yes, IGU is intended to be played with lots of pausing.

The video is absolutely amazing. I believe I have learned some more on ballooner navigation from it, what happens exactly at what fan distance, how long it will take etc. The duration of certain maneuvers is important here; you always assign climbers while the ballooner has enough space above itself, and do difficult maneuvers while not having to assign.

When I played the level, each time I hit a wall with the balloon, I was shouting like a farmer who's dropped an anvil on his foot. I was on voice chat with geoo at that time, so he was cracking up all the time. The circus music was icing on that scene.

The level was even harder in the beginning, and it had several vertical passages that had a width of 16 pixels, like the steel passage in the beginning. I edited those out, I thought that the user had put his navigational skills to enough use by entering that very first passage. I still wouldn't have thought that the current version wasn't that hard for you. Great job!

-- Simon

[geoo]

That's indeed pretty amazing. I wanted to commend you once more on your patience, but that's pretty inappropriate considering you got it right at the first time! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />
From the video it seems that keeping a certain distance between the fan and the balloon is one ingredient to having good control over the ballooner.
One peculiarity I noticed is that you kept clicking the climber icon each time before assigning a batch of climbers, while the fan doesn't actually reset the skill.

Anyway, that night I actually made a level as well, which I just gave the finishing touches to now.
It's a rather easy one again; when executing you got to take care about the L2 limitations when assigning a skill in the vicinity of another worker lemming.
Cavelem is really unfit if you want a solid chunk of terrain, but alas, the dino is only present in Cavelem...

[ccexplore]

From the video it seems that keeping a certain distance between the fan and the balloon is one ingredient to having good control over the ballooner.

Definitely.  It's really just a lot of careful and reactive adjustments, moving the fan to various distances and angles between very frequent pauses, to keep the ballooner on the desired path and away from impending ceilings and walls.  Unless you need the speed, or are doing an "emergency maneuver", keeping the fan too close to the balloon for too long just makes it harder to control.

One peculiarity I noticed is that you kept clicking the climber icon each time before assigning a batch of climbers, while the fan doesn't actually reset the skill.

Heh, yeah, force of habit I guess.  In other levels/challenges with crazy ballooning, you don't typically have the luxury of assigning just the one same skill between fanning.

[weirdybeardy]

I just had a thought... Are the people who constitute this thread the only people making custom levels for Lemmings 2: The Tribes... in the WORLD?? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Quite likely.  Of course, just as other people not on this forum would be unlikely to know of the existence of working L2 editors such as GP's editor and PCL2ED, we too would probably not be aware of any other separate efforts at L2 editors out in the world that may be happening.

[weirdybeardy]

Just to let you know that I'll be taking a break from building Lemmings levels for the time being, until I can find more free time than I currently have... And spend less of my free time playing the dangerously-addictive LittleBigPlanet!

I will continue to lurk, just like I always have done. Respect and best wishes to all. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Hey, best of wishes to you too!

Actually, I think a good number of the major players on this forum have all gotten distracted lately with http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=317.msg8199;topicseen#msg8199" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Clones, myself included.
So you're not the only one taking a break and turning into a lurker. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[kieranmillar]

I decided to play through the levels in this thread, and record my blind playthorughs and upload to Youtube.

Here is the playlist the videos will be added to:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjmQA_pi2AYRAKorO_FMlzkuHJIMzMRSY

I started off by playing all 3 of Simon's levels.
16:9 is a Dumb Ratio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGHMbhQvX9U
Immediately Give Up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOH8y8xTxcw
Not so Glued to the Goal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E2VVZeaGRs

Here are my comments:

16:9 is a Dumb Ratio

The trampolines are hilarious but the level itself is very straightforward, except the tunnel to rop up is really thin so it requires a bunch of precision. Level takes longer to execute than it needs to. A fun idea.

Immediately Give Up

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Not so Glued to the Goal

This level was awesome. I'm aware that final glue is a minor backroute but the level itself was good fun and fun to solve.

[kieranmillar]

And now some comments on the next batch I played.

Cascade II by Dullstar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtnkEIn2mAM
Always The Long Route by GuyPerfect - https://youtu.be/L45Qp4Ye568
The Clam Spammer by GuyPerfect - https://youtu.be/QGEC_oWwuEg
Spelunk 'n' Dunk by GuyPerfect - https://youtu.be/9Sl9A5NxJow

Cascade II

Short and simple but slightly disappointed that it doesn't try to look more like the original level, but the big empty space at least means the most direct route of roping straight from the top of the steps does not work as nothing to attach to when you turn around.

Always The Long Route

A great level, a lot going on for a one-screener! Not sure what the Basher was for. A backroute? If I hadn't been spending the best part of this year on my own set I think I'd have found this a lot harder and not picked up on some key things as quickly, but it's always good to see the rock climber, shimmier and slider triple-whammy.

The Clam Spammer

I think I must have backrouted this because I have an enormous number of skills left over. Huge chunks of the level and my skills went unused. I just the most direct route, which is pretty easy if you give this many builders and ropers. The crowd control at the start forced my hand to let off an early ballooner and when wondering what I could use him for it all just went on from there. The decoration is good here, I love the clam on the cloud near the exit

Spelunk 'n' Dunk

A really cool opening. This was a good level but again a huge number of builders, there doesn't even seem to be enough time on the clock to use them all in practice, but I can't complain as it was useful for crowd control. Perhaps the release rate could have been tweaked to not make the final crowd-freeing flame thrower be such a lucky shot. This level proves that builder+glue is a powerful combo, building a huge bridge very quickly. The video is a bit embarrassing as the sun was shining through the window so I did not see the trap or the fact that there was no plant stalk on the edge of the screen and so walked off the screen multiple times like a huge idiot.

[kieranmillar]

I started playing geoo's levels.

De-Tailed Design - There are two videos, a 45 minute epic that results in a backroute around 43:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBDLTKvTAE and a second, short much more simplified backroute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCOoVrj1vEA
Friendly Fire - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d2NIYACxCQ
Breeze into the Light - Ended up unsolved but I think I had the correct idea, just couldn't execute it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCDIx8mE1w

De-Tailed Design

This level is very hard, but I think I got very close to a legitimate solution. It seems clear to me that sending two lemmings over to the trampoline to place a spear, and then gluing on or around the spear is the correct idea, but I could not get it to work. At one point it seemed right but the glue was too long and everyone walked off the screen, which was a huge shame. If this is the right sort of idea then the level is great, I just need to figure out the wrinkle in my plans at some point. The backroutes I found will need some serious reworking to fix. Given it is version 8 perhaps the level has simply grown too complex and some sort of simplification of the core idea might be in order, I had to do that a few times when working on QFK2.

Friendly Fire

I love the idea, partially because as you know I came up with a similar one independently, and with the same name too! The level is a fun blast with a bit of a fun twist at the end where you have to simultaneously blast two lemmings, I just wish the final execution could be slightly easier, like putting the central exit in a bit of a pit so slight inaccuracies don't cause problems like what happened in my playthrough.

Breeze into the Light

Either I am missing something fundamental or I have the right idea but the specific execution is nasty. I really really love the way you managed to set up the terrain to have the throwers work in the way they do, that's incredible. But there has to be a better way to execute what you have to do here instead of a multi-lemming bomb fling, assuming that is right. And I feel it must be given all of the other skills were accounted for. I like that one makes a cool use of the diver, while the platformer + gluer is neat. Flinging one lemming to the right place and turning the last lemming seems cool too, but it would be nice if there were one more skill like a balloon, or a skier to speed up one lemming to just get that last guy to the right place and not have to worry about what appears to be some extreme execution. I absolutely love the level concept.