custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread

[weirdybeardy]

Me again!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> I've been collecting the customised levels for L2 that people (including myself) have been creating, and gradually replacing the original levels (backed-up, of course) with the new ones in order to create a sort of "Customised Lemmings 2: The Tribes". The difficulty curve isn't always consistent - swerving from ultra-hard one level to easy-peasy-lemon-backroutey the next - but it's fun to fill out the level slots with brand new titles. I've collected over 30 levels so far and I thought now might be a good time to take stock of them. It's nice to see that each tribe has at least one level, with Egyptian and Sports being the most popular, and Shadow and Highland not far behind...!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

And here's how it looks:


BEACH:
"The Clam Spammer" by GuyPerfect

OUTDOOR:
"Recycling Plant" by geoo
"Compression Convergence" by geoo

EGYPTIAN:
"Wall Crawler" by Clam Spammer
"The Diver Level" by geoo
"What a Twist!" by Clam Spammer
"Throw the Switch" by Clam Spammer
"Can't Fit Thru!" by ccexplore
"Sands of Time" by geoo

MEDIEVAL:
"Fierljeppen!" by geoo
"Friendly Fire" by geoo

CLASSIC:
"Always The Long Route" by GuyPerfect
"Cascade II" by Dullstar

CIRCUS:
"The Show Must Go On!" by weirdybeardy   

HIGHLAND:
"Oot 'n' Aboot!" by weirdybeardy
"Pour Me Another!" by ccexplore
"De-Tailed Design" by geoo
"Say Hi To Nessie" by ccexplore

POLAR:
"Ahm Reet Nithered!" by weirdybeardy
"Sixty Below Zero" by weirdybeardy

SPACE:
"Breeze into the Light" by geoo
"Towards a Common Goal" by ccexplore
"Not so Glued to the Goal" by Simon

CAVELEM:
"Spelunk 'n' Dunk" by GuyPerfect
"Give-And-Take" by geoo

SHADOW:
"You Only Lem Twice" by weirdybeardy
"Ticking Bomb (part 1)" by geoo
"Ticking Bomb (part 2)" by geoo
"Mission: Impossible?" by ccexplore

SPORTS:
"The Diptych" by weirdybeardy
"Not A Lot To Go On" by ccexplore
"Back Before Long" by ccexplore
"Remote Control" by ccexplore
"Remote Control (Part 2)" by ccexplore

[ccexplore]

I believe "The Diver Level" and the two "Ticking Bomb" levels are geoo's.

Wow, 30 levels already huh?  Didn't realize we're already 1/4 the way from the original 120. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[geoo]

Yeah, they are, though they aren't my best ones, so I'm not too concerned if you'd snatch the credits from me (especially the first one http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />).

I see there's only one level for each of my two favourite tribes, and each even by me...I think I've got an idea for a new Medieval level (one playable for everyone), though I think I'll wait until at least Wednesday.

If we're really going for a set of 120 new levels, we should perhaps have a look at this list when we choose the style, unless we want the last few levels of Outdoor being made in the Egyptian style with a somewhat messed up preview...
In that case a separate topic for this list might be suitable as well.
There's also another secret space level. And a new step in steganography. d:

[ccexplore]

I see there's only one level for each of my two favourite tribes, and each even by me...

Funny you mention this.  When I did "Towards a Common Goal", because of the simple design of the level and no particular solution in mind on the outset, I actually tried out just about every style to see how they'd look, including Medieval and Outdoor.  Ultimately I felt the Space version looks the best so that's the version I ended up using.  I've attached here screenshots of all 7 styles I had considered.

[geoo]

Here's not one, but two new levels, one Medieval, one Outdoor style.
The Medieval one is one anyone can have a try at, intended to be a fun level. I attached two versions, one with trampolines and one without. The trampolines make the level overall more flingy, however also a bit more uncontrolled, so I don't know which one is better.
EDIT: Also noticed a funny glitch in the process: The skiers don't check for the exit's trigger area, but for the whole exit's area.
The Outdoor level however is trickier (also a bit difficult to execute), and I fear very prone to backroutes. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

I've had some progress on Mission Impossible, but no results yet. The beginning is clear, and I think I found one key trick to it (well, at least I hope I'm on the right track with it), but it's not yet sufficient to solve the level:

Have the top lemming pour over the gap, and divide the stream into two using a spear from below. This will disable the rightmost trap and pave the way along the top at the same time.

And...

And good job to geoo http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />; Nessie's very happy to finally be visited by all 60 lemmings from across the pond. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

So that's what's for dinner! (Why did I even save them... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

[ccexplore]

The skiers don't check for the exit's trigger area, but for the whole exit's area.

Nice, another underused skills featured.  Though to be fair, I can easily understand why the skier's not so featured:

1) it feels a little weird to feature it on a non-Polar level http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />
2) it's hard to make use of it and the effect is quite underwhelming.  You seem to need a large downhill slope followed by a properly curved valley at the bottom to launch the skier into flying.  Even then, the amount of height/distance you get relative to the amount of terrain required for the setup is not all that impressive. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

Will be interesting to see how you use that skill in your level.

And good job to geoo http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />; Nessie's very happy to finally be visited by all 60 lemmings from across the pond. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

So that's what's for dinner! (Why did I even save them... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

LOL! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Actually I have a far more gentle image of Nessie in mind.  Who's to say Nessie's not more like a humpback whale than a shark?  And besides, think about it: what would you rather eat:  tasty fish, or something in the same family as mice and rats? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

The Outdoor level however is trickier (also a bit difficult to execute), and I fear very prone to backroutes. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

Indeed.  Like the one attached for example? But hey, at least it's not blatantly obvious, and far less embarassing than the first backroute I found in Sands of Time.

[edit: another likely backroute attached.  A little less obvious to find, but not too different from the first one.  (Attached screenshots only show how to start, the rest is basically the same as the first backroute.)

The good news though is, once we get rid of all these backroutes, it looks like the solution that remain will indeed be tricky to find, since I've given some effort too in trying to find solutions that would use some of the unused skills and would fit with the title, but no dice so far.]

[ccexplore]

Forgot to comment on the fun Medieval level.  That was indeed quite fun. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />  And more interesting than at first glance, as the level naturally becomes harder the less lemmings remaining in the level.  Making for a nice build-in difficulty curve, as well as providing numerous opportunities for challenges (eg. get gold, fewest skills used, etc.)  Definitely a well designed fun level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

I have to say though, whether the trampolines are there or not doesn't really make too big of a difference to me. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

[weirdybeardy]

Hi guys. I'm having a busy week but I'm hoping to build an easy level once I can decide which tribe to use!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> I've already got the puzzle and the name planned out. Like I said, it'll be an easy one. I'll leave the super-conundrums to you geniuses.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

[geoo]

Looking forward to your new level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />
As for the choice of the style, the styles looking nicest tend to be the most difficult to work with. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Mission accomplished! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />
I knew I had to push that idea a little further! Amazing solution, with your trademark multiple use of skills.
Reminds me a bit of Sands of Time for obvious reasons.
But holy hell to execute, once I got the idea, it took me about 50 tries to finally get it straight. One point that gave me a lot of trouble was that the lemmings from the lower lane at the top came too fast, this could likely be remedied (at the cost of aesthetics...) by making a sawtooth-like path, i.e. repeatedly walking up, falling down, to add a bit of delay.
I'm not quite sure how the chain works internally, but I was surprised that it actually kept almost the same phase in all of my later attempts (that phase wasn't optimal, but ok).

I actually did check 'Compression Convergence' for backroutes, I wonder how I managed to overlook that first one... Initially it had a slightly different name, but I feared it might be giving away too much, so I changed it. Attached is the new version.

Considering you expected some interesting use of the skier, I guess you were a bit let down in that regard by 'Friendly Fire'. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> I just added it for making the timing easier, especially in the end stage, when you need some synchronisation.

Actually I have a far more gentle image of Nessie in mind.  Who's to say Nessie's not more like a humpback whale than a shark?  And besides, think about it: what would you rather eat:  tasty fish, or something in the same family as mice and rats? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

Fair point. Admittedly, Nessie doesn't look too intimidating in the Highlands...

[ccexplore]

Mission accomplished! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

Cool! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> Actually, wow! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />  I think you might've solved this one even faster than I solved your Sands of Time, http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> though I suppose the similarity helps.  Yeah, I don't remember exactly how I built up to this level idea, but undoubtedly your level did influence my thinking at the time.

But holy hell to execute, once I got the idea, it took me about 50 tries to finally get it straight. One point that gave me a lot of trouble was that the lemmings from the lower lane at the top came too fast, this could likely be remedied (at the cost of aesthetics...) by making a sawtooth-like path, i.e. repeatedly walking up, falling down, to add a bit of delay.

Actually, the way you did it isn't quite exactly the way I intended, though I accept your solution nonetheless since it contains the main key idea (and how can I say "no" after you spent 50 tries making your way work? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />).

It does worry me though that a solution exists which is even worse to execute than my intended solution (which with a little practice, I think I can make it work about 1 out of 3-4 tries).  I think it's enough for me to think about whether I can enforce my solution over yours......  I'll post an update when I'm ready.

Considering you expected some interesting use of the skier, I guess you were a bit let down in that regard by 'Friendly Fire'. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Well, I was hoping there may be some interesting use of the skier but honestly I wasn't expecting much, as you can tell from the shortcomings of the skill I already noted in my earlier post.

[ccexplore]

Actually, the way you did it isn't quite exactly the way I intended, though I accept your solution nonetheless since it contains the main key idea (and how can I say "no" after you spent 50 tries making your way work? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />).

It does worry me though that a solution exists which is even worse to execute than my intended solution (which with a little practice, I think I can make it work about 1 out of 3-4 tries).  I think it's enough for me to think about whether I can enforce my solution over yours......  I'll post an update when I'm ready.

Well, that turned out to be a mini-impossible mission of sorts. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />  I've finally attached version 2 which is a surprisingly small change.  [editX:  after spending almost half a day, I've settled on version 2c which fixes some issues I have with version 2 and 2b, which are now removed from this post since there were 0 downloads.]

That said, now I'm not really sure if my way is much better than yours; in fact, while I think once you get the timing in my method it's not too difficult to reproduce, I think I probably did spent just as many tries as you, in finding the correct timing for my solution in the first place.  That much seems apparent when I needed to adjust the timing of my original solution in order to fit with this version of my level.  So in terms of execution difficulty, maybe mine isn't any better than your way (still haven't tried your way myself yet).

But there are some aspects of my solution that I liked a little better, it'll be interesting to see if you agree.

You are also absolutely welcome to backroute this version of the level too if you like, clearly the change opens up some possibilities not previously possible, although I still think the level design and the limited skills should continue to prevent all the other possibilities from succeeding, but we'll see.  I'm most blind to my own levels as before, especially when doing quick-fixes.

You've of course also earned the right to just ignore this version, given the immense effort you spend on executing my first version.  (Good job once again. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />)  But I do hope you'll at least try to work out the general way the solution goes (and let me know), even if you don't bother to actually execute it.

And just to be clear:

Splitting the one stream of filler into 3 exactly like in your solution, together with having the spear catch the bomber before he falls back down, those are indeed the key solution ideas and remain unchanged in the new version.  Many other miscellaneous parts of your solution also carry over in this version.

[editX2:  just in case there are issues with version 2c, I now also present version 3.  Haven't made up my mind which one is better.  You can pick either version to play.]

[editX3: I went back to version 2 instead of 2c, because it turns out I overreacted and one of the problems I worried about version 2 isn't in fact a problem.  Still keeping version 3 though since I'm now getting worried about the obvious potential for problem in version 2.]

[editX4: after playing it tons of times, I'm now convinced that version 2 gives you more flexibility to adjust for timing, and thus will likely be easier to execute than version 3.  Hence I now recommend version 2 over version 3, at least until someone manages a new backroute using version 2.  God I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm so sick of this level! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />]

[ccexplore]

I was still able to adapt my second backroute into your new version of "Compression Convergence", though it now needs one more skill and a glitch.  See attached.  Spoiler below in case the screenshots aren't clear:

After the hero's done paving the way, instead of bombing on the right to release the crowd, have someone dive into the vine on the left.  As you know, that will trigger the lemming to crawl up the vine, where you can bomb to release lemmings on the left.

[geoo]

Cool! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> Actually, wow! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />  I think you might've solved this one even faster than I solved your Sands of Time, http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> though I suppose the similarity helps. [...]

Hmm? It took you not even 2 days to solve SOT, while I only managed it 2 weeks after the release, and at least 3 of these days I actually had attempts at solving it. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

You are also absolutely welcome to backroute this version of the level too if you like, clearly the change opens up some possibilities not previously possible, although I still think the level design and the limited skills should continue to prevent all the other possibilities from succeeding, but we'll see.  I'm most blind to my own levels as before, especially when doing quick-fixes.

Well, considering this you come up with backroute-free levels pretty frequently. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />
Anyway, I didn't get around to have a proper look at the new version of the level yet, but I still intend to, especially considering how much effort you apparently put into trying to come up with a better version.
And be sure I know, I increasingly got sick of 'De-Tailed design' with every single backroute...

Also attached a quick-fix for 'Compression Convergence', didn't see any better way than the ugly steel block.

[ccexplore]

Hmm? It took you not even 2 days to solve SOT, while I only managed it 2 weeks after the release, and at least 3 of these days I actually had attempts at solving it. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Haha, I could've swore I took at least 2 days with SOT if not more, but anyway, I counted starting from the past Wednesday since that's when you said you'll have a proper look at it, and if I recall, on that day you already hit on part of the solution idea.  I'm guessing now you probably had been thinking about the level before the mythical Wednesday.

But who's counting? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> Still a good job.

Well, considering this you come up with backroute-free levels pretty frequently. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I dunno, I remembered that Clam backrouted your "Breeze into the Light" level long after we both moved on from that level.  A surprise like that could well popped up any time with my levels as well. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

Anyway, I didn't get around to have a proper look at the new version of the level yet, but I still intend to, especially considering how much effort you apparently put into trying to come up with a better version.

I don't know if I'd call it a "better" version yet; you be the judge (though I do think at least version 2 has the dual advantage of improving both execution tolerance and solution concept slightly, assuming that change doesn't open up some new backroute).  The effort is mostly spent in executing my solution in each version as a courtesy to verify that it's doable.  I learned the very hard way that maybe my solution is really a pain to work out the timing after all, and I either got lucky with my original version or forgot about the pain.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> I dunno, I'm starting to think that depending on the details of the terrain setup, maybe the chain is actually hurting things more than helping, in terms of timing. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" /> Bah.