Oh No! More Challenges!

alfonz1986 · August 14, 2011, 12:10:12 PM

1-Upped this:

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

19 builders.

Further reduction may be possible

alfonz1986 · August 15, 2011, 03:18:30 AM

Ok, I've just blown the doors off this challenge again.

But I don't want to post the new requirements since this always seems to act as a way for the challenge experts to eliminate red herring solutions

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I'll just let u stew a while longer and see what u come up with....

Clam · August 15, 2011, 07:34:31 AM

Well, I did it with 18 builders, but that's hardly "blowing the doors off" the challenge. I wonder what else is involved...

Good job finding a no-blockers solution in the first place

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

alfonz1986 · August 15, 2011, 01:41:26 PM

Ok, nice job clam. Basically I can solve it 17 builders - LOSE 2 or 19 builders - LOSE 1

Actually if there was 21 builders in the level I would have 100%. It may still be possible by tweaking my method

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

alfonz1986 · August 16, 2011, 01:35:53 AM

Jeez... my brains feels scrambled. I am SO close to 100% but just not quite there. This level really is pretty amazing... it originally looks as if there is very little option on what to do at the start, but theres actually tonnes of intricate, clever ways to contain the lemmings.
Hopefully one combination will work out for me.

alfonz1986 · August 17, 2011, 12:51:47 AM

If the doors were blown off the previous challenge... I think the building has just exploded.

Who said the 100% challenges were done to death?

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> ie no improvements possible?

This is probably one of the very hardest 100% solutions I have come across in the Lemmings games....

new UBER challenge: Wicked 9 - 100% SAVED

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ccexplore · August 17, 2011, 03:55:28 AM

Cool! Good job!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

It's funny how it helps sometimes just to have someone else solve it first, even if you don't actually see anything they did.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> (Turns out I had been <edit: moved to spoilers>.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />) Here's a Lemmix replay and a screenshot (zipped) for anyone who just want to look.

[~~minor note: one of the RR changes (excluding the final RR 99) is superfluous in case you're confused about its purpose~~ edit: haha, I'm the one who's confused

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />, the RR change still serves a purpose, I think]

Quote from: turns out I had been...

doing the bottom part wrong of all things, even though that part was already featured in other challenge solutions (I think)

LemSteven · August 17, 2011, 07:21:07 AM

Oh my

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http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

Congratulations!

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Back on the old Lemmingswelt forums, when we were searching out all of the level records, someone (I think it was either ccexplore or tseug) came to the conclusion that 100% was impossible due to a builder shortage. I looked at the level several times since then and came to the same conclusion (a Taxing 16-like method to hold the crowd falls short by three builders). I never would have thought to do what you did!

I can't view replays, but I was able figure out the solution by studying ccexplore's screenshots and deducing where each builder had to be placed. From there, I was able to figure out on my own how to get the timing down so that the builders interact with each other properly to get the desired effect.

This is truly an incredible solution, rivaling the Lose 2 solution to Mayhem 10 and the 100% solution to Mayhem 2 in terms of difficulty. It makes my Mayhem 29 Lose 2 solution look easy in comparison. Well done once again!

alfonz1986 · August 17, 2011, 09:50:40 AM

Wow, very impressive find there ccexplore.

Whats even more interesting....I found a different solution!!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I didnt realise you could turn builders around like that at 89 RR. I did however use a similar(ish) trick to turn a builder around using a shrugger.

Here's mine.

alfonz1986 · August 17, 2011, 10:33:44 AM

I almost wish the bottom was slightly lower so ur method wouldn't work

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> I think ur really close to the splat height there. My solution would work with almost any splat height

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Also, its a pity u solved it and uploaded it so quickly. Now all the lazy people will just download ur file instead of trying it themselves

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sick.gif" alt=":sick:" title="Sick" class="smiley" />

Still...nice alternate solution. I think I worked on it for about a 9 hour period over a few days before I found it.

ccexplore · August 17, 2011, 12:17:27 PM

Wow, your solution is even more impressive than expected!

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Quote from: slightly spoilery comments

Definitely didn't know about the shrugger trick, I don't think I've seen that before, and probably won't occur to me for a long time if I were to work it out myself unless I got lucky. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I think your method may well be the best method possible (certainly the best known now) for creating a builder-only right-blocking structure not relying on external terrain pixels. I don't think I'd be able to substitute my "rapid stacking of builders" method in your solution due to the high RR necessary, which has some obvious subsequent negative side effects.

I also had an incorrect assumption that things won't work out if the right-blocking structure is too close to the left-blocking structure, totally forgetting there is a simple way to turn around the lemming that built over and land onto the left-blocking structure. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> Forcing the right-blocking structure to start off farther to the right means I can't get the right-facing builder to float down to either of the lower platform (he stops building in between the 2 lower platforms), forcing me to do the lower parts my way. (Indeed, I didn't think the lower part could be done with only 7 builders until your victory forced me to start revisiting some of my assumptions, and that happened to be the first one I picked to attack. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />) And you're right, the fall distance is exactly the maximum possible. I totally lucked out. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=12.msg11382#msg11382">Quote from: alfonz1986 on 2011-08-17 04:33:44

Also, its a pity u solved it and uploaded it so quickly. Now all the lazy people will just download ur file instead of trying it themselves http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sick.gif" alt=":sick:" title="Sick" class="smiley" />

Haha, you need to think more like a lazy person. Someone who's going to be lazy about it (or just too busy) is simply not going to spend weeks on this whether you upload anything or not.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Others will exercise self-control until they either figure it out themselves or give up.

Pooty · August 17, 2011, 01:31:03 PM

I played that level last night knowing that 100% was possible. I got nowhere. Good job, both of you.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

alfonz1986 · August 17, 2011, 01:57:20 PM

Until someone teaches me how to paste hidden quotes, Im going to fill the 'blue message' spaces until I get a white one

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alfonz1986 · August 17, 2011, 01:58:32 PM

@ CCE (invisible)

It may have looked relatively simple turning the left builder, but actually it was the crux of the whole solution. I couldn't afford to waste two builders turning him around against the wall. And I had to totally teach myself the most effective variations in making 3 builder walls. As for my method on the right. I agree, I think this is the most efficient (minimum builder) way of doing it. Although I discovered this technique very early (by accident) and its the same for my other solutions.
So in terms of blockerless builder efficiency I can do 17 builder - LOSE 2 or and 18-builder LOSE 1 with my method. The 100% solution was just a very clever tweak

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />
U should have seen some of the stuff I was trying before i found it..... I almost wished it had worked cos it was so sick, but the timing was just slightly off.

Simon · August 17, 2011, 02:00:02 PM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=12.msg11384#msg11384">Quote from: ccexplore on 2011-08-17 06:17:27

Haha, you need to think more like a lazy person.

Whoa -- if even the busy beaver himself considers himself lazy, then it's time to close the forum.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

I watched the 100 % replays with geoo, both are really neat, they need ultimate timing/precision in order to turn builders with more builders.

alfonz: Spoiler box = make quote, then a color tag with color #dee7ef.

-- Simon