Oh No! More Challenges!

[LemSteven]

Mod Edit: This is the thread where you can submit challenges for individual levels. Have fun!

Restarting the challenge thread...

I've got a new one.  It's nowhere near as difficult as Clam Spammer's recent Tricky 28 challenge (which is insane even if you do know the trick involved), but it's still not a walk in the park, either:

Taxing 7 -- Save 97% (the minimum) using no more than 5 builders.  The level gives you six, so you'll have to find a way to save one of them.

[Clam]

Does that mean you've solved my Tricky 28 challenge?

Anyway, Taxing 7. I'll raise you one lemming - 98%.

In case anyone missed these, my challenge thread (with full challenge list in the first post) is http://henriwatson.com/lemmings/index.php?topic=400.0" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here, and the old, old challenge thread (http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />) is http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1117597280" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here. I wonder if ccexplore has seen my challenges...

[The Doctor]

Man, I've been trying to see how many of these work on the PSP version. So far, sod all. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

But still, makes the attempt that much more interesting. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[Dullstar]

Well, if only I remembered my old challenges...  BAH.
Well, there IS a ceiling route on Lemcon 1 in the genesis version, don't know about the others, though.

[LemSteven]

Does that mean you've solved my Tricky 28 challenge?

Well, yes and no.  I've made several attempts, and I know the trick that's involved, but I've only managed to get 97% instead of 98%.

Anyway, Taxing 7. I'll raise you one lemming - 98%.

Yeah, I should have seen that the first time. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />  I've got 98% on Taxing 7 now.

Another one that's not too difficult, yet highlights a major backroute of sorts:

Taxing 22 -- Save 100% using 1 digger and 5 builders.

[Dullstar]

Does that mean you've solved my Tricky 28 challenge?

Well, yes and no.  I've made several attempts, and I know the trick that's involved, but I've only managed to get 97% instead of 98%.

Would you be willing to tell me what that trick is?  I can't figure it out  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />.

[Clam]

Another one that's not too difficult, yet highlights a major backroute of sorts:

Taxing 22 -- Save 100% using 1 digger and 5 builders.

I like this one. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> VERY close to being doable with one less builder, but that seems to be out of reach.

Would you be willing to tell me what that trick is?  I can't figure it out  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />.

Well, it's not really the sort of thing you can figure out (unless you're ccexplore http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />). Is it time to start being open about glitches, rather than keeping them to ourselves just to mess with people?
Anyway, I posted this on the other forum just before it closed:

There are replays of some of the old challenge solutions on the Lemmings File Portal - you might be able to pick up some ideas from those.

[LemSteven]

Is it time to start being open about glitches, rather than keeping them to ourselves just to mess with people?

That would be my personal preference.  I think ccexplore is really the one who started the practice of keeping glitches secret.  I still don't know some of his glitches, to tell you the truth.

The only glitches I use regularly are the various bashing/mining/digging through steel glitches and the "Tame 20 glitch," in which a lemming that is trapped in a wall climbs up.

[Clam]

Looking through the old challenge thread, there's only one glitch that I don't know about (or perhaps do know but not by the same name), and that is Wild 15. I've seen a replay of this challenge, and I've found my own method of getting 48/50 on this level (hint: look at the steel objects - they're terribly placed), and for the life of me I can't see where the glitch is. ccexplore even mentioned the glitch again in that thread...

Anyway, I found out about many of these glitches by watching the challenge replays. Others I learned from the old challenge thread, or figured out from hints given therein. I'd recommend that anyone who desperately wants to know about the glitches does the same. ccexplore discovered them using some sort of debug tool (or something similar, I don't remember exactly). Like I said, you can't just find these things by looking for them.

[Adam]

I think openness about Glitches is a good thing - there are plenty of players who have no idea about the glitches. There are some fairly obvious glitches that most people know about, but there are also some less obvious glitches that very few people have heard of. If someone discovers a glitch, and chooses to mention it on the forum, I think they should also describe the glitch.

Maybe we should have a thread for glitches? That way, if people want to know about glitches before trying the challenges, they can have a look. At the same time, there are people who want to discover the glitches on their own. If there's a dedicated thread for glitches, those folk will be able to avoid the thread like the plague!

[geoo]

Would you be willing to tell me what that trick is?  I can't figure it out  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />.

Well, it's not really the sort of thing you can figure out (unless you're ccexplore http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />). Is it time to start being open about glitches, rather than keeping them to ourselves just to mess with people?
Anyway, I posted this on the other forum just before it closed:

There are replays of some of the old challenge solutions on the Lemmings File Portal - you might be able to pick up some ideas from those.

Well, as far as I know, ccexplore discovered that glitch by using a disassembly of the game, while I stubled across it by chance.
But it is not a secret, in fact, ccexplore publicly released a tutorial level for that glitch that precisely gives you instructions how to trigger it. If I recall correctly, it was released in this thread: http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1135291547" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1135291547 So @Dullstar, just search for it, once in the level, you will encounter the glitch.

Actually, I found the Tricky 28 one of the easier challenges of yours, ClamSpammer. Trivial to figure out, and not really difficult to execute (at least with Lemmix, it took me perhaps 15 minutes). The level is really as if it was designed for this solution, so you get sufficient builders left over to make timing rather easy to execute.
I still have to examine most of your other challenges some time.

As for the Wild 15 glitch, I'm pretty certain you know it. I wouldn't even call it a glitch at all, as it's pretty much expected behaviour if you consider that blockers turn lemmings around no matter what they are doing. (I was also kind of disappointed after being told about it http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> Didn't know it for long either.)

[LemSteven]

As for the Wild 15 glitch, I'm pretty certain you know it. I wouldn't even call it a glitch at all, as it's pretty much expected behaviour if you consider that blockers turn lemmings around no matter what they are doing. (I was also kind of disappointed after being told about it http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> Didn't know it for long either.)

Does this mean the Wild 15 glitch simply involves a blocker turning around a digger so that when he stops digging he walks in the opposite direction that he started out in?  I knew that for a while (having stumbled upon it by accident once when trying for 100% on Crazy 1).  On the other hand, I can't see how that would help save 96% on that level.  I have saved 96% on that level once, but the only blockers I used were strictly for crowd control, and they were later freed with a basher.

Also, based on Clam Spammer's hint about the steel a few posts up, it appears that my 96% solution differs from his.  Mine is based heavily on Guest's post from August 29 in the old thread, with some release rate modifications that eliminate the need for a blocker/bomber on the left side for crowd control.  It really has nothing to do with misplaced steel areas, other than the fact that it uses the well-known "dig through the last pixel of steel" trick in the end.

The other glitch that I never really learned about was something to the effect of having a blocker's effect linger even after blowing him up.  I have no idea how you would pull that off...

[Clam]

Well, as far as I know, ccexplore discovered that glitch by using a disassembly of the game, while I stubled across it by chance.
But it is not a secret, in fact, ccexplore publicly released a tutorial level for that glitch that precisely gives you instructions how to trigger it. If I recall correctly, it was released in this thread: http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1135291547" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1135291547 So @Dullstar, just search for it, once in the level, you will encounter the glitch.

I first saw this one in a replay of Mayhem 10 (Pillars of Hercules). I've seen the tutorial level too. By the way, what exactly is a "disassembly"?

Does this mean the Wild 15 glitch simply involves a blocker turning around a digger so that when he stops digging he walks in the opposite direction that he started out in?  I knew that for a while (having stumbled upon it by accident once when trying for 100% on Crazy 1).  On the other hand, I can't see how that would help save 96% on that level.

That one? Yeah, I know about it - in fact I discovered it while playtesting one of my own levels (Dig This!). I can't see any use for it on Wild 15 either...

The other glitch that I never really learned about was something to the effect of having a blocker's effect linger even after blowing him up.  I have no idea how you would pull that off...

Another wonderfully accidental discovery for me http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />. I've posted regarding my experiences with this one (and related glitches) before, quite recently in fact.

EDIT: Glitch thread is now open. Check it out - at your own risk, of course. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[geoo]

I can't say with 100% certainty that this (what LemSteven described) is indeed the Wild 15 glitch, but the pretty clear evidence makes me assume that it is.
A possible use I can see for it is right at the beginning creating a large area for the Lemmings to walk back and forth within, possibly making some timing doable there. But I don't know it either.

[...] By the way, what exactly is a "disassembly"?

From what I know, ccexplore reverse-engineered the lemmings binary to some point, thus being able to view the assembly code, and interpreted it to get knowledge about the programming of the game engine and its mechanics.

The other glitch that I never really learned about was something to the effect of having a blocker's effect linger even after blowing him up.  I have no idea how you would pull that off...

Another wonderfully accidental discovery for me http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />. I've posted regarding my experiences with this one (and related glitches) before, quite recently in fact.

A fun thing is that with a very special setup, you can also achieve the exact opposite effect: having a blocker standing around, but without its blocking field thus having the Lemmings just walk past it.

[Clam]

A fun thing is that with a very special setup, you can also achieve the exact opposite effect: having a blocker standing around, but without its blocking field thus having the Lemmings just walk past it.

Awesome. I'd love to hear http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=34" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">all about it. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />