Extracting levels from the Amiga version

[PIGSgrame]

Is it possible to extract levels from the Amiga version of Lemmings and store them in a PC readable format?

The idea is to create a level pack which contains Fun22, Tricky14, Tricky21, Taxing15, and Mayhem22 from the Amiga version, so that PC users can play it with the Customized Lemmings Game - but I have no idea how to do this...

Can anyone explain to me how I can manage this? Or is there even someone who has already extracted these levels?

[edit]
Now I found the "Corrected Lemmings Version" which claims that it's levels have been taken from the Amiga version on Mindless's Lemmings file portal. It does, however, not contain the levels which are pictured here (and which are the ones I seek). Are there different Amiga versions?
[/edit]

[Mindless]

https://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/rips/levels/amiga_lemmings_levels.zip
https://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/rips/levels/amiga_oh_no_more_lemmings_levels.zip

[PIGSgrame]

Thanks for the uploads, but the archives don't contain the "Amiga only" levels

• Fun 22, "Go For It!"
• Tricky 14, "Lemming Lament"
• Tricky 21, "Going their separate ways
• Taxing 14, "It's Not Over 'Til It's Over"
• Mayhem 22, "Don't Make The Wrong Choice!"

which are the ones I am especially interested in

As far as I understand, there is one Amiga version that does contain the levels with special graphics and one where these levels were replaced by the ones above. Do you have these replacement levels also?

[Mindless]

Hmm... I'll probably have to boot up my Windows machine and see if I can rip those...

[Mindless]

https://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/rips/levels/amiga_lemmings_budget_levels.zip

[PIGSgrame]

Thank you very much! I always wanted to play these levels, but have not been able to extract them

[PIGSgrame]

OK, meanwhile I looked up these Amiga-only levels from Mindless's package and put them together in a levelpack file. Anyone intrested to have a look, feel free to download it: http://downloads.pigsgrame.de/AMIGALVL.DAT (Should work with the customized Lemmings game as well as with Lemmix).

"Going their separate Ways" was not included in Mindless's upload, but I downloaded this level several years ago from a source I don't remember. Because it was not extracted directly from an Amiga version, I cannot verify that is the original one, through it certainly reproduces the original idea.

I have to say that these are very intresting, challenging levels. The "special" levels which were added in favour of them have, of course, better eye candy, but I think the dropped out ones clearly grant the better gaming experience. If I had been in the developers' place, I would probably have dropped some of the less interesting doublettes and kept those Amiga levels. As for "Going their separate Ways", I have no idea why this was exchanged by "All the 6's". The latter might be a funny idea, but is not challenging at all, whereas the original one offers a unique puzzle.

[ccexplore]

"Going their separate Ways" was not included in Mindless's upload, but I downloaded this level several years ago from a source I don't remember. Because it was not extracted directly from an Amiga version, I cannot verify that is the original one, through it certainly reproduces the original idea.

That level came from the Mac version of Lemmings (or at least it is present there; I'm not aware whether any Amiga versions have it or not).  I can see if it can be extracted from my copy.

I have to say that these are very intresting, challenging levels. The "special" levels which were added in favour of them have, of course, better eye candy, but I think the dropped out ones clearly grant the better gaming experience. If I had been in the developers' place, I would probably have dropped some of the less interesting doublettes and kept those Amiga levels. As for "Going their separate Ways", I have no idea why this was exchanged by "All the 6's". The latter might be a funny idea, but is not challenging at all, whereas the original one offers a unique puzzle.

You sort of have it backwards I think.  The "special" levels and "All the 6's" came first.  The first Amiga releases only have the "special" levels and "All the 6's".  It's only in later releases that for various reasons they created these other levels to replace them.

It's well known that "All the 6's" were replaced in a few later versions of the game due to some people's objections about having "666" in the game.

[PIGSgrame]

...

That level came from the Mac version of Lemmings (or at least it is present there; I'm not aware whether any Amiga versions have it or not).  I can see if it can be extracted from my copy.

This would be great, since I don't know whether the level I have here was extracted from the game or is just a reproduction.

...

You sort of have it backwards I think.  The "special" levels and "All the 6's" came first.

Did they? I don't know for sure, but from what I have read, there is a "one disk" and "two disks" version of the Amiga version and the special levels were added later. What would be a sensible reason for removing the extended graphic sets later on, after quite some effort has been invested to create them?

It's well known that "All the 6's" were replaced in a few later versions of the game due to some people's objections about having "666" in the game.

I wasn't aware of that, but since the Mac version was released long after the first Amiga version (and the PC version?), this is likely to be true. Most sources I've found, however, always refer to "Going their separate Ways" as the "original" Tricky21.

[ccexplore]

Well I won't say I'm an expert on the history of Lemmings release especially on the Amiga.  This would've been a good question for people like Mike to answer, had they stay around on this forum.

Are your sources available online for us to read about?

[Mindless]

That level came from the Mac version of Lemmings (or at least it is present there; I'm not aware whether any Amiga versions have it or not).  I can see if it can be extracted from my copy.

This would be great, since I don't know whether the level I have here was extracted from the game or is just a reproduction.

It's probably the reproduction from LemNet.

You sort of have it backwards I think.  The "special" levels and "All the 6's" came first.

Did they? I don't know for sure, but from what I have read, there is a "one disk" and "two disks" version of the Amiga version and the special levels were added later. What would be a sensible reason for removing the extended graphic sets later on, after quite some effort has been invested to create them?

They wanted it to fit on one disk... it is the budget version after all.

It's well known that "All the 6's" were replaced in a few later versions of the game due to some people's objections about having "666" in the game.

I wasn't aware of that, but since the Mac version was released long after the first Amiga version (and the PC version?), this is likely to be true. Most sources I've found, however, always refer to "Going their separate Ways" as the "original" Tricky21.

AFAIK "Going their separate Ways" was never released on the Amiga (which would be the original.)

[ccexplore]

Did they? I don't know for sure, but from what I have read, there is a "one disk" and "two disks" version of the Amiga version and the special levels were added later. What would be a sensible reason for removing the extended graphic sets later on, after quite some effort has been invested to create them?

They wanted it to fit on one disk... it is the budget version after all.

I should also add that there isn't as much "effort invested to create them" as one might think.  AFAIK, the 4 special levels are simply screenshots of other DMA games, with an entrance and exit thrown in.  As such, I daresay it might even be easier for DMA to "design" those special levels as compared to "real" levels.  It is also why those special levels take up much more space then regular levels--probably too much to fit on a single disk.

The fact that it's a "budget version" does make me think that the "two disk" version comes first, and they later for marketing reasons decided to downgrade it to a one-disk, "budget" version, adding extra levels in the process to replace the ones that couldn't fit.  Of course I could be completely wrong; some research on this will be needed.

(edit: based on the first post on the thread where PIGSGrame found the screenshots of the levels, it seems more likely to me that the one-disk version was released later)

[ccexplore]

That level came from the Mac version of Lemmings (or at least it is present there; I'm not aware whether any Amiga versions have it or not).  I can see if it can be extracted from my copy.

I extracted the level "Going Their Separate Ways" from the Mac version of Lemmings.  I think it'd works on the PC version too, here it is:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=/Trick21B.lvl

[PIGSgrame]

Thanks! I've compared both levels and found out that the one I had was actually a reproduction (although a good one), which differs in some details. I have included your extracted level into my levelpack and re-uploaded it (same link as above).

As the one disk version is also refered as the budget version, it's indeed likely that it was released later. If you add the fact that the special graphic sets only consist of screenshots or pictures from other Psygnosis games (which I didn't know before), I am next to convinced, so all I can say that they did a rather good job covering the loss of the eye candy levels, putting in some challenging puzzles. The only thing is that "Go for it", although not actually hard to solve, might be a bit too difficult for a Fun level.

[MattKamineko]

I've had a look on the Lemmings File Archive and the Lemmings File Portal, and I can't find any mention of the Xmas '91, '92 or Holiday 1994 levels... would anybody happen to have them handy?  :winktounge: