A problem

[DrLemmingsham]

Yeah, but no one would want to edit levels with a hex editor (except maybe to change the skill distribution or the title or something minor); you can't see how your changes work out w/o having to bring up the game.

Anyway, looking at my old e-mails, Lemmix (one of the most recent level editors in existence) took about one and a half month from project start to the first public alpha.  But that's from someone's who's dedicated and enthusiastic.  Right now it doesn't look like anyone (who has the ability) is itching to write a level editor for Lemming 2, so if we double the time (which is still rather conservative), I'd say 3 months from now.

WHOA! But still, I'd still get one, right? Either way, THANK YOU!!! *Starts dancing around the room*

[EricLang]

You never know.
My gaming days as World of Warcraft seem to be almost over.
I'm starting another Lemmings project soon again. Starting to itch again

[geoo]

Finally got around to have a closer look at the Style files for the Lemmings 2 GFX.
My documentation is a bit messy on first glance, but I hope everything is understandable (feel free to ask if something is not):
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2gfx.txt
Interestingly enough, this file inludes how the sprites (http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2gfx.zip) are linked to tiles (tree, wall block, etc.) which is actually not needed for the level format, however comes in handy for writing an editor.

I don't know what the L2OB section is supposed to contain, and I don't know exactly about the L2SS section, though it seems to be related to the cannon gfx. I made an illustration/interpretation for some stuff I found in this section (the gfx stored as describes are the ones with pink border): http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/L2SS.PNG Yet I don't know how exactly this is related to the cannon.

Linking again, the level format description:
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2level.txt
and the save file format:
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2save.txt

Apparently no-one has started writing an editor, and I'm utterly lacking programming skill for writing one. No matter whether anyone is going to do or not, I'll try to start learning some stuff on programming with graphical output (WinAPI?, whatever), and while that might take ages, after these ages have passed by I might give it a shot if no-one else is aiming for it. But note that the program would likely be crappy and unprofessional, and as said, only released within ages, literally.

[EricLang]

Working now on the new Lemmix, which will be able to do more than ever (Patience needed!)
So I'm interested in this stuff Geo! I'll study it

[geoo]

Nice to hear that. If you have any questions about the documentation, feel free to ask.

I don't know where the data for the cannon and the chains of the swing is stored yet, and did not yet describe how the length of the swing/cannon is determined in the level format; I'll add the latter soon though (I hope).

EDIT: Forgot to say, I'll be off for two weeks starting on Sunday.

[EricLang]

I managed to extract the terraindata. I found a few minor errors in the docs, but will let you know which ones later.
We need a lot of hacking to do before we can edit levels.

[geoo]

I'm back from my two weeks' absence.

I had taken a book on OpenGL with me, and what I read would provide me a base to write a simple, difficult-to-handle editor. Back home, I guess I'll fiddle around with it a bit with it, and perhaps use displaying tiles and such as introduction into using the features.
Maybe I'll approach writing an editor like that, but please don't feel discouraged in case I do, Eric. I'd rather be a test on programming for me, not as much a proper editor to use.
Take your time, I'm sure your editor will be as superb as your one for Lemmings 1 once you get it done.

Oh, and please point out those mistakes in my docs that I can fix them. They are overall a bit messy, but I don't know how to make them more clear. Any suggestions?

[geoo]

Just for the record, graphics of the terrain/background tiles that are linked together from 16x8 sprites as specified in the L2BE section. Just the tiles for each style in one *.png image as my graphical progamming skills don't go beyond displaying the sprites and taking screenshots from that: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2tiles.zip

[Mindless]

can you display the animation frames of the sprites?  or has that information not been decoded yet?

edit: also, I've finally put your file format descriptions up on my site

[geoo]

Thank you. They are still a bit messy, so I should tidy them up sometime.

As for the animation frames, I know the format they are stored in (unless I did some mistake in figuring it out). I might be able to produce the images by tomorrow (Friday) evening.

[geoo]

Well, there you go: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2obj.zip

Interestingly enough there seem to be a couple of graphics that haven't been used in the original levels. OTOH, some objects are not stored there, so I guess they are stored in some of the sections I don't know the format of.

Forgot to say, if anyone wants the code/programs I used to produce these images I'd give it away of course; but I discourage this as (1) the program might be instable (2) it is not platform compatible (I think) (3) the code shows my embarrassing programming skills. Yet perhaps the code snippets for extracting the data from the gfx files might be of use.

[Mindless]

awesome, now somebody needs to make Lemmini/Tundra themes from these

[geoo]

I've managed to figure out the structure of the L2OB section now.
I don't know the meaning of every single byte, but it is sufficient to infer from the data how the objects are built up from the animated sprites.
The only problems of course are the cannon and that chain thingie as their graphics are likely stored in the L2SS section I don't know much about.

EDIT: Got some ideas about the L2SS section; well, this is what is stored in that section for the Classic tribe:

[Mindless]

EDIT: Got some ideas about the L2SS section; well, this is what is stored in that section for the Classic tribe:

haha... an easter egg

[geoo]

Well, finally found out the format of the gfx stored in the l2ss section, at least to a degree sufficient to display the sprites.
It's overly complicated, and literally, a lot of crap in there.

Here are the graphics, as .png, as usual: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/l2ss.zip
I think everything looks pretty allright, yet it might be possible that there are some flaws in it. Funky pink background as otherwise it'd be difficult to distinguish the two shades of white (background & belonging the sprite).
On of the frames of the medieval tribe's dragon looks screwed, but it seems that this frame of the animation is not used.
The chains of that chain thingie appear to be stored somewhere else. As it is the same for every style (I think), I guess it is stored in some other file.

Will update the docs asap; I guess the information is sufficient for writing an editor (only problem the chain thingie): Eric, where are you? :wink: