[DISC][NL-CE] Sound Schemes

[WillLem]

Split from this topic.

The most controversial thing I see here: Don't overload the player with 1000 sounds!#

I get the point, but you do exaggerate here. The proposal is to add 4 extra sounds (Assign Fail, -/+ RR, Jumper, Laserer), and pitch-shift the skill buttons.

With that said, I was aware for the potential for this to be controversial (hence the clams!), so I'm more than happy to make these optional. However, in the interests of not overloading the config menu, I suggest the option simply be "Sound Scheme: NeoLemmix / NeoLemmix CE". NeoLemmix keeps the current NL status quo, CE adds the new stuff. At least to begin with, we should try it like this and see if there's demand for the individual sounds to be broken out into their own options later.

There is also scope for the "Sound Schemes" idea to incorporate other skill sounds that some people find annoying (the Swimmer sound, anyone?). It could even be expanded to a 3-way option:

Necessary only - Builder/Platformer/Stacker bricks, Zombies, Let's Go!, Exiting lems, basic un-pitched panel buttons, Bombers

Enhanced - Add the Assign Fail sound and the enhanced panel buttons (pitched RR/Skill buttons)

Complete - Add the less-necessary skill sounds (Jumper, Laserer, Swimmer)

100% optional please and it being turned off as standard.

For the first release, let's do as I've suggested and make a 2-way "NL / NL-CE" option, and switch it on by default. Reasons: (1) Give the sounds a try first, they might not be as annoying as you think, (2) we can always set them to off by default in a later update (I imagine 1.1 will follow not too long afterwards, and 1.0 will be getting an RC phase anyway).

Some users might like the sounds; we want to reach those people as well as those who are vocal in opposing them. Otherwise, some users who might like (or even rely on) the expanded sound scheme might not realise it exists, and that's worse than someone being annoyed and then realising that they can turn the sounds off (an annoyed user is far more likely to go config-menu-diving!).

Ultimately, I understand the need to protect the current NL status quo for the literally "noisier" UI stuff like sounds, so rest assured that I won't go ahead with adding anything until we've reached a consensus on this.

Thoughts & suggestions welcome.

[IchoTolot]

I agree that the RC version can be used with additional sounds for testing purposes so that we can at least try them out.

I exaggerated yes, but I can easily see that we can get into the "too many sounds" area not only through many new sounds but through the right/wrong ones and I can already see the potential here.

The "Sound Schemes" idea sounds like a very good suggestion. We should use the RC to test it out. Maybe even ask a new playerprofile what they prefer at the first start?

Adding the swimmer to Complete is something we could test. I agree that the sound not being optimal and is my least favorite sound out of the current. Maybe we even find/create a better one that is easier on the ears!

[Armani]

Reasons: (1) Give the sounds a try first, they might not be as annoying as you think, (2) we can always set them to off by default in a later update

Isn't it possible to justify implementing every feature with this logic?
: People don't want feature X, but let's implement it anyway because there's a chance people will change their mind. And if feature X sparks a backlash we can ditch in a later update.

I would suggest implementing it as you said(make them optional + switch them on by default) for RC. And poll them to see enough people support the ideas after the RC phase before implementing them to "official" CE.

NL is the most popular engine and most of the custom lemmings levels are being played with it. And considering that CE is practically going to be the "official" latest version of NeoLemmix, I don't think it's a good idea to casually implement and remove things just to see if people like them or not.
RC can handle that.

And
1)rejecting a feature that is being tested in the RC build
2)removing a feature that is already implemented to an official release
these two are very different and one is siginificantly harder than the other obviously.

And you remind me that I've always thought the swimmer sound is too loud.   I volume it down for my NL setup. I wonder if people are interested in making it quieter.

[WillLem]

The "Sound Schemes" idea sounds like a very good suggestion. We should use the RC to test it out. Maybe even ask a new playerprofile what they prefer at the first start?

Yes, we can add sound schemes to the Welcome Screen for sure. I'll implement it as a 2-way enum to begin with (NeoLemmix Status Quo / NeoLemmix CE) so it's future-proof if we want a 3-way option.

Adding the swimmer to Complete is something we could test.

For now, maybe we could include it in the "NeoLemmix CE" option?

Isn't it possible to justify implementing every feature with this logic?

Yes, it is. But I'm not doing that, I'm using it to justify implementing this feature!

I don't think it's a good idea to casually implement and remove things just to see if people like them or not.
RC can handle that.

Agreed. The RC phase is likely going become a particularly important development step for CE.

Rest assured, I have no desire to step on anyone's toes; the goal is to add some much-requested features and/or obvious UI improvements (which would include auditory feedback, i.e. sounds) to make NeoLemmix even more Forum-friendly. We'll use RC/Experimental builds for feature testing, then (if a feature warrants it*), we'll poll to get a consensus.

*All I will say is that I don't think it's necessary to do this for every feature; the ones that need it will present themselves as development progresses. The important thing at the moment is to get started, get something released, see what the feeling is.

And you remind me that I've always thought the swimmer sound is too loud.   I volume it down for my NL setup. I wonder if people are interested in making it quieter.

For sure, by all means share your lower-volume version and we can trial that as well.