[No Bug][Player] Sliders Exiting in Midair If Still Dehoisting

[kaywhyn]

See attached level. Again, observed in v12.12.5, but I have also confirmed it works in the 12.13 RC build. I actually first saw this in a Lemmings Hall of Fame level, an L2 Medieval one to be exact, but you guys wouldn't know that unless I told you, since I'm currently private pre-testing the pack for Strato before he publicly releases it sometime this year

Build in such a way so that when the Lemming is a slider, he will slide and go back out to the left. Notice that for the top left sliders will exit in midair. Same thing with the bottom right. Both the top right and bottom left they don't exit until they touch the ground first, during which they will exit, as usual. It makes no difference if they're pre-assigned sliders or are assigned the slider skill, the results are the same.

I thought maybe it has something to do with the dimensions of the exit trigger, which is somewhat true. However, it turns out that what matters is sliders will only exit in midair if they happen to touch the exit trigger at anytime during the de-hoisting animation. For example, turn up the RR to about 70 or so and make a Lemming in the top right build. Make the next one to come out of that entrance a slider. If the RR is appropriate, he will arrive and slide off the staircase around the second-to-last builder brick and exit in midair, but the builder himself will exit when he lands on the ground because the builder doesn't hit the exit trigger by the time he leaves the de-hoisting animation.

Along with the above, notice that the terrain in the bottom right is 3 pixels below the exit, in order to demonstrate that when they are sliders in that quadrant that they will exit in midair. Otherwise, if the ground is level with the Brick exit, then they will exit after hitting the ground first.

[WillLem]

Tried this level in SLX and the Sliders exit in all 4 setups. For the bottom left, if building from the step so that the bridge ends above the exit trigger, the Slider falls then exits when hitting the trigger.

This is because Fallers (and, in fact, all lem states) can exit in SLX. I'm not sure if this is helpful information, but I just thought I'd point it out: kaywhyn's observation that the Sliders only exit during the Dehoister animation is confirmed; in the other cases, the lem becomes a Faller and then exits. Since Fallers don't exit in NL, the lem must fall all the way down and become a Walker to exit.

[namida]

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to describe, can you attach a replay?

[namida]

Okay, so I'm not really sure what's going on here. The best I can gather is that the issue is Dehoisters / Sliders being able to exit even if there's no terrain under the exit itself, as long as they have a wall to cling on to; but if they become a faller, they can't. If so - this seems fairly consistent to me. Lemmings that are somewhat "in control" of themselves - floating, gliding, etc - are able to exit even if the exit itself has no ground under it. Likewise for lemming states that "stick" in midair regardless of ground, such as builder. It's only cases where the lemming is falling (ie: isn't in control and couldn't try to enter the exit) where exiting is forbidden.

With that in mind - if I'm understanding the original issue correctly, I don't think this needs any fixes.

[kaywhyn]

Okay, so I'm not really sure what's going on here. The best I can gather is that the issue is Dehoisters / Sliders being able to exit even if there's no terrain under the exit itself, as long as they have a wall to cling on to; but if they become a faller, they can't. If so - this seems fairly consistent to me. Lemmings that are somewhat "in control" of themselves - floating, gliding, etc - are able to exit even if the exit itself has no ground under it. Likewise for lemming states that "stick" in midair regardless of ground, such as builder. It's only cases where the lemming is falling (ie: isn't in control and couldn't try to enter the exit) where exiting is forbidden.

With that in mind - if I'm understanding the original issue correctly, I don't think this needs any fixes.

All rightie, thanks for the explanation Indeed, in the OP I described the steps to have a slider Lemming build in such a way that he finishes just over the exit and to observe how sliders can use the exit in midair only if they are still in the process of dehoisting but they don't exit if they are able to transition into a faller completely. The former is what I thought was an "issue," but after your clear explanation and me remembering seeing in a level I played from Armani's pack that shimmiers currently are able to use the exit while shimmying along the ceiling (not the same, but shimmiers can, after all, use teleporters too, whether from the vertical jump or while shimmying along the ceiling) that perhaps it's not a problem after all.

Tried this level in SLX and the Sliders exit in all 4 setups. For the bottom left, if building from the step so that the bridge ends above the exit trigger, the Slider falls then exits when hitting the trigger.

This is because Fallers (and, in fact, all lem states) can exit in SLX. I'm not sure if this is helpful information, but I just thought I'd point it out: kaywhyn's observation that the Sliders only exit during the Dehoister animation is confirmed; in the other cases, the lem becomes a Faller and then exits. Since Fallers don't exit in NL, the lem must fall all the way down and become a Walker to exit.

Right, all sliders being able to exit isn't the problem. As I described and you correctly wrote in the second paragraph, the problem I had in mind at the time I made this report was sliders using the exit in midair if they didn't finish dehoisting. There's no problem with them not using the exit if the slider completely transitions into a faller, as that's expected and it was agreed that fallers cannot exit. With namida's explanation, yea, it makes sense with the former and that there's no problem at all. So, never mind then. This was just simply something I observed while private playtesting Strato's upcoming LHOF pack and which took me by complete surprise and I thought sliders being able to exit in midair is awkward is all  

[namida]

Alright, guess we can close this one then.