Level Design Contest #30 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[IchoTolot]

All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix or Lix Player!

Lix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7l40h44g5zboao4ckj0vp/Contest_30_Lix.zip?rlkey=lzqxzihv9de4ew2zy9rz5731o&st=9iw6xu7b&dl=1

The Lix levels will then be in the single/Contests/Contest_30 folder!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/507i2isjjep39z803nvc7/Contest_30_NL.zip?rlkey=aiwconmf54fkp9yy8a6p5afz7&st=olb9bvf4&dl=1

There are currently some styles required that are not yet in the standard tileset collection and need to be added manually. This post should link to them: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5684.msg102427#msg102427

edit by kaywhyn (6/18/2024) - namida has now updated the styles manager so that the tilesets Icho linked to above are now included in the standard library collection. If you want, you can still grab them via the link above, or you can download them through the styles manager in the NL player. Either way works.

Music (NeoLemmix): https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bod9qdsercvf4on8mrsvv/Contest_30_Music.zip?rlkey=uoy3hty24ntrjby2z6n7uyyge&st=kpdzd449&dl=1


Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "Guts Over Fear" (V1)
Crane's "High Striker" (V3)
Eric Derkovits's "Mosaic Lemmings" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Comm-Link Online!" (V2)
JRT's "One Thing At A Time II" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Snow Way!" (V5)


Rule 2 Levels

geoo's "Cycle Decomposition" (V1)
Armani's "Very Particular Set of Skills" (V2)
Eric Derkovits's "March of the Neutrals" (V5)
IchoTolot's "Set To Kill!" (V3)
JRT's "Don't Bash It Before You Dig It" (V4)
kaywhyn's "The Incredible Doom Machine" (V8)


Rule 3 Levels

geoo's "Misaligned" (V1)
Armani's "Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns" (V4)
Crane's "Tomb Raiders" (V9)
Eric Derkovits's "Neither here nor there" (V3)
IchoTolot's "Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" (V3)
JRT's "The Epic of Gilgamesh" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Always Remember" (V13)


You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6655.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 8th of August!
Updates will close on 5th of August!

Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

Link to update topic

[kaywhyn]

Just a heads up to everyone, Icho and I will be trying out a Dropbox feature which if it works, I will be able to provide him some assistance with updating the contest collection pack and making sure it's up-to-date. This is just to lend him a helping hand with that, but for all intents and purposes, Icho is still the main host of contests I'll just be co-assisting, again if the feature works out.

Also, I had a quick look-see of the contest levels, the R2's (my ruleset) in particular, and wow, they look great! However, @JRT your R2 is fine, but it is missing the bomber skill, which needs to be included and is one of the criteria for my ruleset:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6655.0 

[IchoTolot]

Darn I missed that one - @JRT Simply make an update for your level so it requires a bomber. I will leave it in for now, but to be eligible for the voting an update is required.

[Crane]

Though a bit cheeky, since JRT's level requires 100%, can 2 bombers be added and it still abide by the rules, if not the spirit of them?!

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, some trivia for my levels

-  All 3 of my levels this time were made with tilesets that I have never made a level with before.

-  Except for R2, my levels use the classic 8 skills only, though for R1 it's not required but is for R3 of course being an absolute must due to being Icho's ruleset

R1:

-  Snow level, so with this, I have now used all the L1 and ONML tilesets at least once Also IMO one of the more clever titles I've managed to come up with and maybe the reaction you might have in seeing the level - Snow Way! (you know, pun on "no way!")

-  The music track is another one from an online game called Gunbound. It's another one of my favorites, along with "Sudden Death," the latter of which I used for my level "Lemmings vs the Jolly Roger Pirates" from the previous LDC #29

R2:

-  "The Incredible Doom Machine" - reference to The Incredible Machine series of puzzle games, or even the hypothetical machine. For the former, this one in particular is a reference to the game "The Incredible Toon Machine" (link to my LP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsv7YPNitFE0cQ2b5OeKJZV)

-  The track comes from The Incredible Machine 2 and is the first music you hear when you first start up the game.

R3:

-  "Always Remember" - Kind of a reference to the first level of the Classic tribe of L2, Do you Remember? Other than that, the design and solution have nothing to do with that level

-  As Icho's level is a reference to Classic 2, I originally wanted to do something similar but with either Classic 1 or Classic 3 for my R3, but later on I remembered the level ideas I wanted for my own level for the ruleset  
     

Though a bit cheeky, since JRT's level requires 100%, can 2 bombers be added and it still abide by the rules, if not the spirit of them?!

As this is my ruleset, sorry, but for R2 at least one bomber skill needs to be used in the solution. From the ruleset in the LDC #30 topic and I have bolded the first part of the second bullet point:

Rule 2: Tools of Mass Destruction (kaywhyn)

- Use bashers, miners, diggers, laserers(NL) and fencers(NL). (You can use just 1 of these skills, any 2, any 3, any 4 or all 5 is also fine)
- Use bombers | For Lix: Use imploders
- Don't use any other skill

So, sadly the level's save requirement in JRT's level needs to be changed up accordingly to account for at least one loss. I should also add that using the bomber skill was always a criteria for R2, so it's not like I adjusted this bomber criteria and said that it's optional at any time during the submission phase Needless to say, my ruleset is quite similar to R1 of LDC #27, except the difference in that one is it's constructive skills (1, 2, or all 3 of those skill types are fine) + bomber skill only.

[Crane]

Here's the levels I've solved so far (other than my own).
Rule 1

"One Thing At A Time II" (click to show/hide)

Simple to work out, but very fiddly to execute - basically no two lemmings can land on the final narrow platform during the same frame.

Rule 2

"March of the Neutrals" (click to show/hide)

Looks quite intimidating at first, but if you just go to it, then things fall into place quite quickly.  Possibly a backroute though as I have a lot of tools left over.

"Don't Bash It Before You Dig It" (click to show/hide)

Quite deceptive and the title is a sneaky fib!  Ultimately quite simple though once you look past the fluff.

"The Incredible Doom Machine" (click to show/hide)

Much like the final level of T.I.M. "Up up and away...", it looks intimidating but not all that difficult.  A bit precise in places but it's fun trying to save as many as possible... unless I backrouted it.

Rule 3

"Neither here nor there" (click to show/hide)

That was absolutely evil!  You often don't realise you made a mistake until the very end when you are one builder short or one of the climbers goes off to the right into the water.

"The Epic of Gilgamesh" (click to show/hide)

This one is unfortunately very tedious and painfully precise (I used all 89 builders) and had to rewind several times because of misplaced bridges preventing the final digger from getting all of the way through).

"Always Remember" (click to show/hide)

Feels like a backroute as I had 2 Builders left over.  I had to do some trickery to make sure the final lemming exited on time.

I feel like I'm close to solving "Guts Over Fear", but I am always a Basher or a Shimmier short!  The secret is so close, just out of reach!  Same with "Particular Set Of Skills"... my timing is still off.

[Crane]

Just completed "Snow Way!" and "Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" too.

"Snow Way!" (click to show/hide)

Level title is very fitting and very "Oh No! More Lemmings!"-esque.  Sometimes you just have to trust the timing!  I did save a Climber though.

"Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" (click to show/hide)

A neat little puzzle that tests your skill management.  I possibly backrouted it as I had a Blocker and Basher left over, but the extra saved lemming was due to a Basher/Blocker trick

[Crane]

"Mosaic Lemmings" solved.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This really gives a "How the Hell do you solve this?" air, and even when you get over the initial stunned confusion at where to even start, given you only have 3 destructive skills, there are a lot of red herrings and incorrect combinations in the tools you have left.  This is a good and intimidating puzzle, even if some bits of terrain feel a bit janky and uneven in places (like you can't easily tell that the 6 regular lemmings are Sliders, and the fact that some of the neutrals are Swimmers and Disarmers is unclear because the icon is camouflaged against the trapdoor graphic), but I understand that it needs to stop Shimmiers and Jumpers.

Also, I love how the disarmed snake trap has a spanner lodged in its mouth!

P.S. When I worked out what I had to do to solve "Neither here nor there", these were my literal thoughts! (5:14) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua6pbz3ROvQ&t=5m14s

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, I'm happy to report that the Dropbox feature Icho and I are trying out works great, and so moving forward he and I will switch off on updating the contest collection pack from time to time. What I'm thinking is he can probably do it one week, I do it the next, etc. For the first updates, however, I will do what Icho did for the previous LDC, which is I will wait for about a week in case more updates come from the other entrants before doing so. Therefore, though I have already posted updates to my levels in the update topic only a day after the playing phase has started, I won't update the contest pack at this time. Instead, I will wait for a week in case more updates from others come in the meantime before updating the contest collection pack That way, I won't have to make small updates to the collection pack every time and instead can include all updates from everyone all in one go.

@Crane

Thanks for playing my levels! They're all backroutes but luckily were easy fixes.

R1 - For V2, just added OWAs on the other pillar where the exit is.

R2 - For V2, added some steel where the exit is.

R3 - For V2, I modified and extended the walkway in the bottom right area. I actually had to think for a while on how to fix your backroute for my R3 even though I had plenty of options there (not OWAs, pickups, or buttons though, as these objects are forbidden for the ruleset, keep that in mind! )

If you fancy giving my updates a try, great. No worries if you end up not doing so, though. There's always people like Icho and Armani to break levels and to resolve until solutions are intended/acceptable

[JRT]

Oooohhhh, yes I appear to not have read rule 2 properly.

I think best for now I withdraw the level, if I can fix it maybe I resubmit?

[IchoTolot]

@JRT
Simply post a V2 of your level in the update topic that fixes the problem. We will include it in the pack shortly after that.
I will leave the current version in the pack for now, but it won't be eligible for voting this way.

@Crane
Your solution is mostly fine, but yes due to that trick it saves skills and a lemming. It is not totally broken and I tend to accept it even if that timing heavy trick is not required. I will try one fix though that maybe could do something here.

[JRT]

I really like Neither Here Nor There.

Here is a replay for V2.

Just played the V2 of Snow Day. Here is the replay for that, I'm guessing its the intended solution?

[Crane]

Version 2 of "Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" and "Always Remember".

"Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" (click to show/hide)

Very similar to before, but I have to now use a Basher to truncate the bridge.  If I don't use the Basher/Blocker trick, I will save just enough lemmings but have 2 Blockers left over.

"Always Remember" (click to show/hide)

Had a Climber and Builder left over.

[Crane]

Completed Eric's R1 and R2 levels again.  Haven't got R3 yet... that reduction in 3 Builders is stumping me.

[kaywhyn]

@JRT

R1 - Nope, that's not it. Quite far from intended, actually. For V3, the right OWAs were changed to down ones, while the left OWAs were changed to up ones. This is hopefully it now, but let's see!

@Crane

R3 - Ugh, I left another path available which I haven't really thought about that could be used to cheese the level For V3, modified the terrain and added a flamethrower trap.