Level Design Contest #30 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Crane]

Nice one on the solves!  I wish I could see you solving these on video... we seem to be missing that for this contest!

Your solve to "Tomb Raiders" is a backroute, but I'm impressed enough that I can't be mad, but I think I need to patch it because with some slight adjusting it's possible to save an extra lemming.

I also can't help but laugh at your solution to "Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns" because of how simple the backroute it is, as well as being surprised that I didn't notice it myself (I found one that required a V2).

[kaywhyn]

@Crane

Resolved your R3. This solution any better? It's a bit too heavy on the precision for my liking, but then again I admit that I most likely made it harder than it needed to be!

Oh and also, I don't know if Icho ever confirmed it for you for his R2, but your solution is intended/acceptable now!

Nice one on the solves!  I wish I could see you solving these on video... we seem to be missing that for this contest!

Yea, I know how much you like seeing people play your levels in real time, but unfortunately Icho and I are past this point for contest levels due to our shifting preference of playing the levels in peace and how some of these can take a really long time to solve. Maybe not for Icho, as I consider him one of the best solvers of this community, but most definitely for me, as some of these took quite a bit of time and so a lot of the time you wouldn't really see me doing much on camera anyway!

I also can't help but laugh at your solution to "Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns" because of how simple the backroute it is, as well as being surprised that I didn't notice it myself (I found one that required a V2).

Yea, I surprised myself from not having found this backroute for Armani's level much earlier, because this one stumped me pretty good for several days! I'm sure the intended way is impressive, based on what you discussed about the level, and so I will try again once Armani drops an update!

[kaywhyn]

How about now @Crane? Still too heavy on the precision for my liking.

Also, I've included V7 of your R3 in the pack this time, but please remember to delete your post in the update topic and make a new one posting your update next time!

edit: 1 more solution but saves some extra!

[kaywhyn]

New solution for V8 with the new way I did the start looking intended. All skills used but spared a bomber and saved an extra!

[Armani]

@kaywhyn
R1 is intended as you might have guessed already.
R2 is not intended but pretty close. Brute forcing to sneak past the fire near the OWW is not something I want to allow. So here's an update
R3 Yeah no idea why that simple "just build up" backroute slipped my mind.


R2 and R3 got updates but they won't break any accepted replays so far

[kaywhyn]

My new solutions to Armani's R2 and R3. R2 is of course intended now while R3 sadly is still a backroute

[Armani]

@kaywhyn
R2 is intended
R3: I moved the flame thrower downward a bit.

[kaywhyn]

Only had blockers this time but this still feels extremely hackish.

Also same thing as I told Crane: Please remember to delete and make a new post when posting your update in the update topic. Do not just edit/modify your existing post!

[IchoTolot]

Link to my playthrough:

Part 1 (NL): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vSESEx0fU
Part 2 (My own levels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPVIkmuxC0I
part 3 (Lix): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s10AS1r6UcY

I also attached a new NL replay collection.

[ericderkovits]

@Icho

I noticed in the video for my Rule 1 level (Mosaic lemmings), that Strato's swedish lems were not used. (just shows the default ones)

Strato uploaded his complete sprite collection back on march 10, 2020.

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4681.0

also Namida didn't include them in the styles update

[kaywhyn]

@Icho

That's another nice backroute find for my R3. For V12, I shifted over the flamethrower and put it in a nice box Alternatively, I could had also put some steel on the vertical wooden plank, but I figured since I already have a flamethrower close by I might as well put it to good use. "Kill it with fire!" as I always like to say

I've updated the contest pack to include V12 of my R3 as well as updates from both Armani and Crane, though they only affect my replays. Everything is fine on yours, but feel free to double-check with yours!

I've already commented on your solutions to my levels on your video, but I'll copy/paste here too.

R1 - Intended! Great job. Also, thank you so much for your compliment. Both Armani and Crane liked this level of mine as well ^^

Spoiler

I pretty much envisioned a level where you need to build over the digger pit so that all Lemmings go out the correct way (to the left) and then pretty much took the level from there with the somewhat well-known build immediately upon landing because the fall is fatal by just a pixel but is safe for the digger (kind of got inspired by your United level QUOLA). Indeed, I share your assessment that the part with the icicle trap at the bottom is the hardest part to figure out of the solution. I think mine might be the first to require two sacrifices to the trap. I know plenty that need one. That blocker next to the trap was partly inspired by Armani's Color Coded from the previous LDC, but mostly inspired by a late Psycho Marble level from Lemmings Plus I The release at the end was inspired by your Wrath of the Lem King from Lemmings United. See why I like that level so much? Hehe ^^ Also my very first builder/miner combo level I ever made =)

The music is another track from the online game Gunbound and I thought it fitting for a Snow level because the music kind of brings up thoughts of a snowy place Indeed, I think I remember the track only playing in those environments in the game, though maybe they're random? I don't remember, it was so long ago.

Link to track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLfT0bFMBO4

Finally, I must say that this is one of the best level titles I've managed to come up with in a really long time ^^ You know, Snow Way! is a pun on when you exclaim, "No way!" in reaction to maybe something unbelievable you heard or in shock about something. That is probably the reaction a player will have upon seeing this level hehe.

R2 - Intended as well! The level title of course is a reference to The Incredible Machine series of puzzle games.

Spoiler

Also might double as a reference to the figurative Doomsday Machine and quite possibly a subtle hint to the intended solution of a nuke level. Also as you might have noticed it is indeed my very first nuke level ^^ I once made the remark that I think pretty much every notable Lemmings level designer makes at least one nuke level. I guess it was finally that time for me hehe. The leftover skills are meant to be distractions in possibly getting players to react, "these won't help me get to the exit at all, how is it possible?" They will then try and see if they can conserve both the bomber and the digger for the end, but try as they might it's not possible since those skills are pretty much already locked elsewhere in the level. So, it will hopefully help them to discover that this is a nuke level.

Thanks again for playing my levels and the very nice compliments on them! You really can see my development in level designing over time here! Also, I figured out what you meant with recording the videos now. As I pretty much know you by now, you intend to show solutions to the updated levels which were deemed backroutes in a later video. As I mentioned a few times, you really will love the intended solution to my R3 once you find it and when it's the only solution possible But for now, we are still a bit far but hopefully the update I uploaded just now will do it!

[IchoTolot]

@eric
Oh, I did not know I missed some sprites there.
Thanks for the notification!

[IchoTolot]

Here is my replay for kaywhyn's R3 which "could" be somewhat intended.

Also a new replay for crane's R3 because the old one broke after the update (same solution though).

[kaywhyn]

@Icho

R3 - Getting closer but still not quite there. Indeed, you've proven both me and Crane wrong with the way we tried to see if the level could still somehow be cheesed, and you managed to succeed there For V13, I changed up the terrain near the exit.

Spoiler

I definitely had a feeling one could somehow cheese the level with the final two Lemmings from the entrance, and indeed I missed that you could just make them build to hit their heads so that you get high enough to bash from below Actually, you're the first to make me aware that it can happen on the far left side, so it never occurred to me for whatever reason!

Also, I don't know if it's just me, but your voice is extremely soft and quiet in these videos that I need to temporarily turn up the volume on my laptop and then put it back to where I usually have it at once I'm done watching them. I checked your videos of the 5 past LDC's and your voice is perfectly loud and clear, so no problems there. New headset? New recording setup?

[IchoTolot]

Also, I don't know if it's just me, but your voice is extremely soft and quiet in these videos that I need to temporarily turn up the volume on my laptop and then put it back to where I usually have it at once I'm done watching them. I checked your videos of the 5 past LDC's and your voice is perfectly loud and clear, so no problems there. New headset? New recording setup?

Noticed that as well. I think I just spoke a bit softer, but I also added an extra 2db of gain in OBS to counter that.