Prince of Persia tileset : the palace

[David]

I present to you a new tileset. This is the palace, one of the two settings of the game Prince of Persia 1. The other setting (the dungeons) has already been proposed by Proxima.

Here are 3 levels made with this tileset:


First steps


The pillars of success (you can take a nap on soft pillows! )


Magical arches (you can meet the princess! )

As an attachment, you can download the tileset (davidz_persiapalace) and the 3 levels.

A quick word to Proxima, if you read this post : I improved the locked exit that I had created and that you had put in your proxima_persia tileset (I added the stairs) and I also improved how the unlock button works. If you want, and if you think it's good , you can integrate these two modifications into your tileset. You'll find the locked door and the unlock button attached.

[Pieuw]

This looks neat, and brings back lots of memories
Well done!

[David]

Thanks Pieuw. This game was released in 1989, it brings back memories for many of us.

[kaywhyn]

Hello David,

I have solved these three levels of yours. My replays are attached.

I also recorded my video solutions. Link to playlist: Kaywhyn's Prince of Persia The Palace Custom Lemmings Levels by David Playlist

I tried to @ your YT channel with my videos, but it doesn't seem to work, I think because of how your channel doesn't have that many subs at the moment.

Great levels, though honestly they would be better if your solutions didn't rely on so much precision. As I have mentioned before, just because you can doesn't mean you should!

For example, for The pillars of success,

Spoiler

That second digger needs to be spot on or the basher won't be able to get through at the bottom for the final button to unlock the exit. Consider moving the terrain closer so that it's not as much of an issue. Similarly, for the first digger, there's not much leeway in placing it in order to cancel it with a miner, as depending on where the digger is the miner might break through to the floor instead of continuing further to the left in order to cancel him with the second digger, which again is already super precise! Getting that fencer to continue without the miner stopping him is also tricky!

All of this being said, I do acknowledge that I might had made my solution harder than it needs to be!

For First Steps, it's not as much of an issue, though

Spoiler

That timing with releasing the blocker is super tight, especially as the builder just barely makes it across before the blocker and the basher who frees him arrive. This can easily be fixed by increasing the Lemming count. Even then, getting that basher timing right can be tricky since a pixel or so can determine whether he continues bashing or stops after one stroke.

Magical Arches was probably my favorite one out of the three! However, you again want to squeeze out as much as possible on the NL mechanics in regards to the constructive skills, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but remember that it might not be as enjoyable as it should be for others. Even then, my favorite part of the solution is the crowd delay!

Thank you for sharing your levels in this style!    

[David]

Hi kaywhyn,

I tried to @ your YT channel with my videos, but it doesn't seem to work, I think because of how your channel doesn't have that many subs at the moment.

Yes, no doubt!

I'm attaching my replays here: for all three levels, your solutions are (much) more difficult than the ones I had intended. Well done anyway.

Spoiler

The pillars of success: This level is not hard. You could just cancel the miner by turning it into a fencer! Your solution works well, but it's very difficult to execute.

First steps: I made sure the lemming had plenty of time to build a bridge before the blocker was released. Your solution is interesting, but perilous.

Magical arches: I like your solution; you managed to save a basher. But I think the intended solution is easier!

Thank you kaywhyn for playing these levels and providing such detailed feedback. It's always nice to read your comments and look at your solutions.

[kaywhyn]

Hi @David,

Thanks for the reply to my solutions and feedback! I've now went ahead and recorded videos of your intended solutions to the three levels. Same playlist link as before in my post above Thanks for the replays so that I can make a side-by-side comparison with my overcomplicated solutions!  

Spoiler

The pillars of success: This level is not hard. You could just cancel the miner by turning it into a fencer! Your solution works well, but it's very difficult to execute.

Ack, can't believe that cancelling the miner the way you described went completely over my head! Indeed, after seeing your solution I have made my life much harder than it needed to be As for the difficulty, one other user who PMed me for help on this level, for which I supplied my replay to them after I too struggled for a time, so we both say otherwise about it not being hard I would go further and say it's quite deceptively difficult despite the very minimal skillset It's very easy to fall into this trap as a designer of underestimating/overestimating the difficulty of one's levels. I myself fall victim to this all the time, thinking my stuff isn't hard but then I get told otherwise from the feedback I get by others!  

Spoiler

That cancelling the digger with a miner can be really hard to pull off and even might be one that some aren't aware of, so that alone already increases the difficulty a lot!

 

Spoiler

First steps: I made sure the lemming had plenty of time to build a bridge before the blocker was released. Your solution is interesting, but perilous.

Magical arches: I like your solution; you managed to save a basher. But I think the intended solution is easier!

After seeing your solutions to these two levels, yea, I agree with you that I overcomplicated all three of my solutions to your levels in comparison to the intended way! Oh well, sometimes that's the way it goes: We don't know any easier way to solve a level and just go with a hard to pull off or overcomplicated solution even if we're certain that it's not intended!  

[David]

I've now went ahead and recorded videos of your intended solutions to the three levels.

Thanks kaywhyn!

Spoiler

About The pillars of success, you notice:

I would go further and say it's quite deceptively difficult despite the very minimal skillset. (...) That cancelling the digger with a miner can be really hard to pull off and even might be one that some aren't aware of, so that alone already increases the difficulty a lot!

Yes, you had to find a way to do a U-turn. And I haven't seen this trick often in other levels/packs. So, I agree, it can be considered not obvious. Moreover, at first glance, we don't know which path to take to reach the exit while activating the three buttons.

It's very easy to fall into this trap as a designer of underestimating/overestimating the difficulty of one's levels.

You're absolutely right. It's very difficult to judge the difficulty of your levels yourself. Like you, I often tend to underestimate it. So, The pillars of success level is probably not easy. I mistakenly thought it was the easiest of the three and wouldn't be a problem for experienced players.

To go further, I think there was another difficulty here: these three levels are not part of a pack (where the difficulty of the levels is indicated and where they are classified by increasing difficulty), it's therefore not obvious to know in advance if there are easy or not; in short, we don't know what to expect! Anyway, what matters is to find a solution, even if it isn't the one intended. So congratulations to you!