Multiplayer Lix players, we need to talk!

[Flopsy]

Lix people, we need to talk.

I want to address the fact that we haven't had very well attended Lix multiplayer sessions since pretty much just after the Handicap update was implemented, about a year ago now (20th Nov 2022). That was the last time we played an eight player multiplayer map.
Since then, we've been lucky to get 5 people each session.

We typically play on Sunday evenings when we do arrange a session but I have been doing all the arranging and Sunday is my most available night of the week. But I feel like we have fallen into the trap of arranging on a Sunday because it is the most convenient thing to do now with it being the "safe" day.

Is it the time of day which is preventing you from playing? We typically play at about 5pm UTC in the summertime or at 6pm UTC in the wintertime to account for the clocks changing periodically but that is pretty much the same time. It is usually 6pm UK time.

The handicap feature has been implemented to help the new players play on a level playing field when compared to myself, IchoTolot, geoo and Simon who are more experienced at the game. This should theoretically make it easier for new players to have fun.

If the fact that I have been making a lot of experimental new maps every session has been a problem with helping people who are new to the game, I can stop making new maps for the time being.

I want to hear from the people who are wanting to come and play Lix with us more often or even new players who haven't played and would like to:
- is playing on Sundays the barrier which is preventing you from playing? What would be a better day to play?
- is playing at 6pm UK time (5pm-6pm UTC) preventing you from playing? What would be a better time to play?
- is the intense learning curve of the multiplayer game preventing you from playing?
- is the large amount of new maps been a problem in introducing you to the game properly, would playing more classic maps help?

Maybe this post is not necessary but I just want to know if there is any problems with the current system we seem to have in place.

[mobius]

I haven't joined in a quite a while because I basically lost interest in the game. I was never real fond of the more complicated maps to begin with and preferred the simpler ones but now I realize its more just I'm not motivated to spend the time needed to get good at the game to really have fun. I hope those who want to keep playing can find a way to make it work!

[IchoTolot]

I usually can make sunday, but it depends a bit on my "exhaustion level" that weekend. Let's say being totally tired is not a fun way to play Lix.

I would say saturday is even a bit more conveniant for me but otherwise the timeslot is totally fine for me.

[Simon]

The optimal way for new players: Find another new player, and play together. Discover some strategies yourself.

The central gameserver is always online (Network Game -> Play on the Central Server). You don't have to wait for our scheduled sessions. Ask your friend in your favorite chat tool for a spontaneous session.

Don't memorize hotkeys before your first game. Maybe learn a single hotkey, e.g., for the builder, and click all other skills. After all, IchoTolot plays a strong game and still clicks on the skill buttons.

Our scheduled sessions take 2 to 4 hours and I livestream them, that's a lot of energy for me. You don't have to attend all of it, you can join or leave between any two games. A single game takes only a few minutes.

If you have nobody to play: Ask me in IRC (Quakenet #lix, you can join chat in your browser). I'm happy to play 1v1, or with a group of new players. We can play even games or handicap games, as you like.



About Flopsy's questions: Saturday or Sunday are both fine with me. I've left it to you because you work for your job on weekends and I don't.

I'm happy to play with fewer players. After all, Lix is most strategic at two players, or with two teams. But bigger sessions reach more players, which spreads the love further.

-- Simon

[Silken Healer]

The time and date is fine for me and I currently have no preference.

As for feedback for the sessions, I notice sometimes we play a map a few times, I slowly but surely get familiar with it and then we just switch to a new map after only a couple of games where I am familiar. I would prefer it if we played maps for a few more times before switching. I don't really know what maps count as "classic" or not. I'm speaking more about specific to the session, than between sessions. I suppose I would prefer playing the same maps between sessions too, though. Does "classic" mean simple? If so, I suppose more simple maps would be better too. However, I don't really mind what maps we play, I would just prefer to play them more times in a row per session. I do like the map where you have to send your Lix down, build a bridge back up and then free them. Just throwing my feedback out there though, nothing has to be changed.

Also iirc have we even been using the handicap feature, I think we only used it the first session after it was released?

The central gameserver is always online (Network Game -> Play on the Central Server). You don't have to wait for our scheduled sessions. Ask your friend in your favorite chat tool for a spontaneous session.

I used to have a couple of friends from other online communities but they now we're not friends anymore now. If we can make up and be friends again one day in the future, I'll ask them if they want to play Lix, and maybe we can have a couple extra players, but I don't know if they're busy, if they'd like Lix, etc.

If you have nobody to play: Ask me in IRC (Quakenet #lix, you can join chat in your browser). I'm happy to play 1v1, or with a group of new players. We can play even games or handicap games, as you like.

Sure! I'd be happy to play 1v1 with you. I heard that the IRC was deprecated now but I guess not.

[Dullstar]

Since having enough slots for everyone isn't typically a problem, I usually don't commit ahead to joining and just kinda see how I'm feeling day of. I'd say the times aren't great, but they are doable but I'm not sure I can really suggest a better alternative, because the reality is we have players on multiple continents so times that are convenient for one continent often won't be convenient for other continents.

With regard to maps, I think maybe one possibility might be give weaker players a chance to feel out the maps, particularly the overall routes to the exit, before sending saboteurs to collect or destroy the honey pot, so to speak; keep the sabotaging mostly contained to stuff that's directly in the way or just between strong players when playing a new map.

[Simon]

before sending saboteurs to collect or destroy the honey pot

Yep, this is a topic of its own. Free-for-all games with 5+ players are popular with newer players, but new players are more prone to leaving their crowd clustered. Stealing a weak player's honeypot is a strong strategy. It's much better than stealing stronger players' lix because strong players retaliate, they're even happy to have some stray lix near your exit.

On 6-player or 8-player maps, it's hard to directly attack the player in the lead. If you can't hurt him, you're forced to find another way to score, and that's typically stealing lix from nearby players. In the extreme case, if you take the honeypot, you're mean; if you don't, you aren't playing to win, which isn't always so easy to hide.

Still, free-for-all is so popular, it would be sad not to play it with new players.

-- Simon

[Flopsy]

Thanks for all your feedback Lix people!

I haven't joined in a quite a while because I basically lost interest in the game. I was never real fond of the more complicated maps to begin with and preferred the simpler ones but now I realize its more just I'm not motivated to spend the time needed to get good at the game to really have fun. I hope those who want to keep playing can find a way to make it work!

I'm sorry you're not as into the game anymore.
I am in the process of writing an in depth Lix multiplayer guide, it's taking a while because I am trying very hard to write it properly and make it easy to read. I'm even going very in depth and talking about map strategy in detail on the most played multiplayer maps at least, there should be some simple ones in that list at the very least.

I usually can make sunday, but it depends a bit on my "exhaustion level" that weekend. Let's say being totally tired is not a fun way to play Lix.

I would say saturday is even a bit more conveniant for me but otherwise the timeslot is totally fine for me.

I think the weekend has always been the way to go, it's our best chance to get more players together.

It's been a while since the Black Lixes have been plaguing me, we miss you Icho

As for feedback for the sessions, I notice sometimes we play a map a few times, I slowly but surely get familiar with it and then we just switch to a new map after only a couple of games where I am familiar. I would prefer it if we played maps for a few more times before switching. I don't really know what maps count as "classic" or not. I'm speaking more about specific to the session, than between sessions. I suppose I would prefer playing the same maps between sessions too, though. Does "classic" mean simple? If so, I suppose more simple maps would be better too. However, I don't really mind what maps we play, I would just prefer to play them more times in a row per session. I do like the map where you have to send your Lix down, build a bridge back up and then free them. Just throwing my feedback out there though, nothing has to be changed.

Also iirc have we even been using the handicap feature, I think we only used it the first session after it was released?

I'm all for playing maps more before moving on, I'm working on a multiplayer guide as mentioned above and playing maps more repetitively would be of benefit to me. It would also give me a chance to test my formulated strategies from watching replays from previous sessions and the Lix multiplayer videos.

With regards to what is classed as a "classic map". I could say any map which is in the top 60 on this list which I released to the forums recently since they have amassed collectively 9 or more plays since 2018.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tVkVBSeseiMyx8z7uNDmWpcyXMwqaIKvu4fC7DjRy4I/edit#gid=806922549

The term classic could also apply to any map which has been in the multiplayer for a significant amount of time but not necessarily been played a lot, I'd rather that be referred to as "retro" or "legacy". That could be a whole different discussion anyway.

Yes we do have handicap and we have been neglecting it as of late because I have been on a map designing spree again. Next session we will be making use of the handicap again.
It will go hand in hand with us playing maps more times before moving onto the next one. I'd probably revisit some of the newer maps I made as well for the benefit of players who didn't get a chance to play them.

When playing newly created maps we tend to leave handicap alone since we are still establishing how the map plays, handicap tends to come later when the map play meta is established.

With regard to maps, I think maybe one possibility might be give weaker players a chance to feel out the maps, particularly the overall routes to the exit, before sending saboteurs to collect or destroy the honey pot, so to speak; keep the sabotaging mostly contained to stuff that's directly in the way or just between strong players when playing a new map.

I do tend to leave the less experienced players alone for the most part. I find it more challenging and beneficial to grapple with the stronger players anyway because it helps me improve.
I feel like picking on weaker players does not help the community improve because it has lead to some players permanently leaving the Lix multiplayer community. Also I've been there and it is very soul destroying when you get picked on over and over in Lix multiplayer, I did wish at those times that I could be left in peace to just make a route to the exit and it is a nice feeling to complete the route to the exit and then move onto having a go at sabotaging.
I feel that once you get sabotaged by someone who you have been leaving alone to let them improve and flourish, I feel like then it is ok to retaliate and sabotage them because they are extending the challenge to you when they sabotage you.

So the point I'm making here is, if someone is new to the game, make them feel welcome and leave them alone until they are ready to enter the sabotage game by sabotaging you. Take it from someone who has played the game only since 2018 and has improved to what is considered an experienced player.

Yep, this is a topic of its own. Free-for-all games with 5+ players are popular with newer players, but new players are more prone to leaving their crowd clustered. Stealing a weak player's honeypot is a strong strategy. It's much better than stealing stronger players' lix because strong players retaliate, they're even happy to have some stray lix near your exit.

On 6-player or 8-player maps, it's hard to directly attack the player in the lead. If you can't hurt him, you're forced to find another way to score, and that's typically stealing lix from nearby players. In the extreme case, if you take the honeypot, you're mean; if you don't, you aren't playing to win, which isn't always so easy to hide.

Yes it can be tempting to punish a new player for bunkering, but again it is going to make them not want to play Lix anymore. It would be nice just once to let them get their bunch to their exit.
If you are a strong player and you have to pick on a weaker player then you need to work on your game and be able to grapple with stronger players, I feel you can learn way more from grappling with someone on your own skill level.

Sometimes it's best to not play to win but to have fun, I enjoy gaming sessions in general (be it Lix, Golf With Friends, Ultimate Chicken Horse etc.) when everyone comes away from it having really enjoyed it because then I know that there will be more fun ahead when we get together to play again.
Sadly the last gaming session (not Lix) I attended did not have that vibe and people ended up being very badly upset, the complete opposite, it didn't sit well and needless to say no-one has mentioned playing that game since.

Sometimes we as the stronger Lix players have to look out for the newer players and make sure they are having a good time. You can usually tell when they are not having a good time because they become quieter or get noticeably irritated.