[SUG] Require levels to have a nonzero number of exits

Started by WillLem, August 10, 2023, 03:19:27 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

WillLem

How would people feel about SLX requiring levels to feature at least 1 exit, a save requirement of at least 1, and at least 1 non-zombie & non-neutral lemming?

Reason: at present, a level counts as "passed" if the save requirement is zero and the level ends for any reason, which doesn't seem right; same applies if the level has no exit. I realise that this will mostly only come up during testplaying, but it still seems a good idea to set a basic standard for level creation.

This has been debated previously for NeoLemmix (N.B. - my own "contribution" to this previous discussion can pretty much be disregarded at this point), albeit more from the point of view of updating the way replays are handled in this scenario.

I've pretty much got this working; so far, we count how many exits there are right at the start of gameplay. If the result is 0, a message pops up informing the player that the level can't be played due to not having at least 1 exit, and then gameplay terminates to the postview screen.

If levels are also required to have a nonzero number of normal lemmings, and a nonzero save requirement, then the level also wouldn't be automatically solved.

Also, note that it would be possible to bypass this requirement when testplaying the level via the Editor.

Thoughts?

namida

I would at least suggest nonzero normal or neutral lemmings be the requirement, not just normal lemmings. A self solving level, a technical demonstration, or a RR / nuke level, could still work under such conditions - not to mention the deneutralizer.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Strato Incendus

Well, my "Great level of indifference" from World Tour that had a save requirement of 0 in Old Formats already no longer works this way in New Formats. :P So I wasn't even aware that SuperLemmix would allow for this again.

Since you mentioned Zombies, though, I do wonder whether there might be some levels where "kill all zombies" is the only objective, even if all regular lemmings die, too? :evil: On such levels, a save requirement of zero would actually make sense - as long as you can enforce killing the zombies somehow before letting the player advance / marking the level as solved. A talisman is generally just a "nice-to-have" reward on top, not a solving requirement...
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

WillLem

Quote from: namida on August 10, 2023, 10:05:16 AM
I would at least suggest nonzero normal or neutral lemmings be the requirement, not just normal lemmings

Quote from: Strato Incendus on August 10, 2023, 03:23:07 PM
Since you mentioned Zombies, though, I do wonder whether there might be some levels where "kill all zombies" is the only objective, even if all regular lemmings die, too?

Both good points; the upcoming deneutralizer and the ability to solve levels without skills means that neutrals-only should be allowed, and the "kill all zombies" talisman does mean that levels could be created where that is the only objective; the exit in those levels could then become secondary, coupled with a "save X" talisman rather than a nonzero save requirement. I like the idea of boosting the presence of talismans generally :thumbsup:

So... if we leave it as it is now (i.e. levels require an exit, but not a nonzero save requirement or normal lem count), requiring an exit solves the problem of the save requirement defaulting to zero in the non-presence of an exit.

This then means that zero save requirements would have to specifically be a design choice rather than a bi-product of not including an exit in the level. This seems to be a step in the right direction, meaning that any time a level has a save requirement of 0, there will likely be a good reason for it.




So, to clarify: levels will require at least 1 exit, but can have only neutrals, only zombies, and/or a save requirement of 0.

Implemented in Commit 4c2dba8fc