[Neolemmix] Mikes Lemmings Version 2 [Difficulty:Medium-Hard ]

Turrican · March 27, 2023, 11:48:55 PM

Here is the second version of my pack. The pack contains 38 levels. 17 levels from the first version , plus 21 new levels.

About the ranks : The original pack had 3 ranks ( Wild , Wicked , and Bonus ) . The new pack has 4 main ranks , and one bonus rank. The main ranks , use name of stars now ( Sun , Pollux , Arcturus And Rigel ) . The reasons for this change is because , it will allow me on the future to add more ranks ( if i make more levels ) , without the need to release another pack , and also it allows the difficulty to be reset ( as it happens here , between the second and the third rank ) .

The first rank contains 10 levels , the second rank contains 9 levels , the third rank contais 8 levels , the fourth rank contains 7 levels , and the Bonus rank contains 4 levels. The 27 levels in the three main ranks , and one levels in the bonus rank are made by me , and the other three levels from the Bonus rank are "Lemmix to Neolemmix" level conversions , that I have done in the past.

The three converted levels are: "All that a Basher can Do" by Dodochacalo , "Is There a Pilot in the Rocket ?" by Dodochacalo , and "Bubble Bath" by Gronkling.

You will find the pack , as an attachment in the bottom of this post. I have attached also , the replays of the solutions of the levels.

About the styles : Some levels require the "turrican special" tileset , in order to work. I have attached it to this post.

Also one of the level needs , one of the Festival Millas 2002 tilesets ( plom_stnebula ) . Because that tileset is relatively new , if you haven't it already , you can find it on the Festival Millas 2002 release thread. Here a link for that thread : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6137.0

About the music : The soundtrack of the pack , contains several new tracks ( plus the tracks that were contained on the original pack ) .

Here is the link for my Dropbox , where you can download the music tracks for the levels of the pack:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s6qdfderck8hej1f2gxhn/Mikes-Lemmings-Version-2-music.zip?rlkey=va0n4knj83cw7c68sjpohdr7u&st=6aq7ixew&dl=1

It contains a folder , called "Turrican projects". You need to put that folder , inside the music folder.

Special thanks to :

Jkapp76 , for creating and providing , the logo for the pack.

Nessy and Namida , for putting some of their levels in the "Bits of levels you can finish" thread , so I could use them as basis for four of the levels , contained in the pack.

IchoTolot , for giving me permission to put his solution for "FC Lems screwed by the refs" , in the replay collection.

Armani , for giving me permission , to use his lemmings-like shapes for one of the levels.

Armani , IchoTolot , Kaywhyn , and Mobius , for sending me solutions for several levels , that are contained in the pack .

EDIT :

I have uploaded, the version 1.01 of the pack, which is based on solutions , and feedback by Kaywhyn.

First of all , Rigel 10 (Cyberlems 2555) , has now become Rigel 11 , and it is called now "Cyberlems 2555 - Part 2". The new Rigel 10 , is a level called
"Cyberlems 2555 - Part 1" , and it's a level that will help you research, most of the key skill assignments, that you will need in order to solve Part 2.

Both levels contain, several visual hints on their terrain, that will help you to properly find, the correct skill assigments, that you will need , in order to solve both levels.

Here are some instructions, of how to use these properly markers:

Spoiler

There are small orthogonal shapes in yellow colour, that hint the exact position. of the builders. You need to place the builders stair in such a position , that it will cover exactly all the yellow pixels.
Also in the two checkerboard squares on the bottom part of , the level , there are two orthogonal (right-angled) triangles in yellow colour, that will help you ensure , that the exact height, of the miner tunnels , that you have found is the correct one. If your miner's tunnels are correct, the miners will remove all the pixels above the hypotenuse angles , of these triangles, but none of the yellow pixels of the triangles.

Rigel 11 also, contains , several other changes on it,s terrain , that make it a bit easier, compared to the original version.

The updated version of the pack also contains backroute fixes for two levels. More precicely, it contains the version 1.03 of Rigel 1 - "Chocolate Rush" (it has now , a time limit), and the version 1.01 of Rigel 7 - "A Place Lost In the Aether" (it contains a small terrain change).

I have uploaded also , the updated replay collection for the pack.

NEW EDIT: I have uploaded, the version 1.14 of the pack , which contains some big changes.

First of all the Rigel rank , has been split into two ranks now. These ranks are Arcturus and Rigel. And 5 levels that previously were in the Rigel rank , are in Arcturus rank now.

Also the "AI art" levels , and the ""Excavations in the Cubic Cave" level , that previously were in the Bonus rank , are now in the main ranks.

Also , it contains a new level. That level is : Arcturus 7 - "A.T. in construction" . It is based on a challenge solution for Genesis - Sunsoft 29 ( "I am A.T." ) .

I have upladed also , the updated replay collection, which also, contains , the replay of the solution , of the new level.

Also I uploaded , the updated version of the soundtrack of the pack , in my dropbox , and I have posted , in this post , the link for my dropbox , which contains , the updated soundtrack , of my pack.

Here are some pictures from some of the new levels:

"The Moon on Vacation"

''Underwater Caverns''

"Subspace"

kaywhyn · March 28, 2023, 10:54:32 PM

Onto my to-play list this goes!

Only 10 levels to play here, all in the Rigel rank, since the rest of it is just from Mike's Lemmings. Looking forward to when I get to this!

Turrican · March 29, 2023, 03:32:38 PM

Quote from: kaywhyn on March 28, 2023, 10:54:32 PM
Onto my to-play list this goes! Only 10 levels to play here, all in the Rigel rank, since the rest of it is just from Mike's Lemmings. Looking forward to when I get to this!

Looking forward to your playthrough !

Turrican · May 28, 2023, 09:51:21 PM

I have uploaded, the version 1.01 of the pack, which is based on solutions , and feedback by Kaywhyn.

First of all , Rigel 10 (Cyberlems 2555) , has now become Rigel 11 , and it is called now "Cyberlems 2555 - Part 2". The new Rigel 10 , is a level called
"Cyberlems 2555 - Part 1" , and it's a level that will help you research, most of the key skill assignments, that you will need in order to solve Part 2.

Both levels contain, several visual hints on their terrain, that will help you to properly find, the correct skill assigments, that you will need , in order to solve both levels.

Here are some instructions, of how to use these properly markers:

Spoiler

There are small orthogonal shapes in yellow colour, that hint the exact position. of the builders. You need to place the builders stair in such a position , that it will cover exactly all the yellow pixels.
Also in the two checkerboard squares on the bottom part of , the level , there are two orthogonal (right-angled) triangles in yellow colour, that will help you ensure , that the exact height, of the miner tunnels , that you have found is the correct one. If your miner's tunnels are correct, the miners will remove all the pixels above the hypotenuse angles , of these triangles, but none of the yellow pixels of the triangles.

Rigel 11 also, contains , several other changes on it,s terrain , that make it a bit easier, compared to the original version.

The updated version of the pack also contains backroute fixes for two levels. More precicely, it contains the version 1.03 of Rigel 1 - "Chocolate Rush" (it has now , a time limit), and the version 1.01 of Rigel 7 - "A Place Lost In the Aether" (it contains a small terrain change).

I have uploaded also , the updated replay collection for the pack.

Here is how "Cyberlems 2555 - Part 1" looks:

jkapp76 · May 28, 2023, 10:46:08 PM

Here's a Logo file I made for this pack. I've made logos for every pack in my computer that was missing them. (That's how serious my life is lately)

Turrican · May 28, 2023, 10:58:26 PM

Quote from: jkapp76 on May 28, 2023, 10:46:08 PM
Here's a Logo file I made for this pack. I've made logos for every pack in my computer that was missing them. (That's how serious my life is lately)

Thank you for the logo!

Most probably next week , I will release an update, where I will reposition two of the levels , on the Rigel rank , and I will also include your logo!

Turrican · June 01, 2023, 10:17:34 PM

I have uploaded, the version 1.02 of the pack.

The pack has now it's own logo! Many thanks to Jkapp76 , for creating and providing , the logo for the pack!

Also , the level Rigel 3 - "Subspace" , has now become Rigel 5 , and the level Rigel 5 - "Underwater Caverns" , has now become Rigel 7.

kaywhyn · June 14, 2023, 07:22:45 PM

Hi Turrican,

I have solved all of the new Rigel rank, including the original Rigel 10. My entire replay collection is attached. This is feedback for the initial release version, not v1.02. Also, I did an LP of the rank: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsK3ZHMJTjd-huos3Qmsrpx. Here, you want to start at the first video after part 8 of Mike's Lemmings. Enjoy!

General Feedback

Mike's Lemmings Version 2 can be thought of more as an expansion to the original Mike's Lemmings, which I've completed from a while back. The Wild and Wicked ranks from Mike's Lemmings are called Sun and Pollux, respectively, here in Mike's Lemmings Version 2. Mike's Lemmings Version 2 adds a new rank called Rigel, between the Pollux and Bonus ranks. However, instead of having 7 levels, the new Rigel rank has 10 levels (11 in v1.02).

I must say, the new Rigel rank is quite tough but I really enjoyed some of the challenges in it! Think of the Rigel rank as the equivalent of Havoc from ONML. Since it comes right after both Wild and Wicked, it therefore makes sense the Rigel rank is very hard! In particular, I found Rigel 3 and Rigel 5 too tough for the first half of the rank. Turrican has accordingly moved them to later in the rank in v.102. They are now Rigel 5 and Rigel 7, respectively, and I think they are now much better positioned as a result. I always tell authors to be very wary of early roadblocks, as this increases the chances of players rage quitting a pack, which is never good for a pack IMO. Now, I don't have any experience with making a pack whatsoever, but I'm sure this is a general consensus.

Rigel Rank Feedback (initial release)

As I am the first player to properly play through the rank, I therefore was first to give Turrican feedback, and he found it super valuable and helpful. I'm glad, because I simply want future players to enjoy his levels/pack rather than go through the same frustrating experience as me. In particular, promise me, you DO NOT want to see the original Rigel 10! After first attempting the level on video, I almost went on a full blown-out rage privately to Turrican about the level. He felt bad about that, as I later did myself, but in turn he has released updates to the level. I have taken a look at them in the final video of my LP that I recorded several hours ago, and I absolutely agree that they are much better than the original version!

The only thing is that I didn't give Turrican feedback about them before he released an update to this pack, but I think it was for the better, as he would had waited for a long time on me otherwise to get back to him on them. I think it was for the best that I got away from the level for as long as I could, and I think that really helped. Let's just say last night I was very determined to get the original Rigel 10 level solved once and for all, as I had a couple of hours to spare. Yes, there was still some frustration during the process, but I really think the shower I took beforehand really helped there! I also played under the condition of a breeze of cold air blowing on me from playing in not so sweaty apparel which helped there too. Being sweaty while playing was quite distracting for me. I'm also one of those to not leave things unfinished on the table. Eventually, I always go back and finish what I started!

I still have the original Rigel 10 for anyone who wants to try it, but I'm almost 100% certain you don't want to play it. It will cause a lot of rage and frustration! So really, you can thank me for sparing you the pain and agony of having to play it. You will like the newer versions of Rigel 10 far more!

Yes, there's still a lot of precision, but Turrican has eased a lot of it considerably. I still think the level asks and demands too much of it from the player, but naturally the level design makes it all work out when you finally get the solution to work!

Spoiler

Rigel 1 - Chocolate Rush Nice level to start off the rank, but also more challenging than it looks! It's not easy to figure out how to manage the main hatch on the left, who are preassigned climbers and sliders. My solution is a backroute, especially considering the very long waiting game I used. I had a feeling it wasn't intended anyway. I totally forgot about a stoner being sufficient to contain the left entrance.

Rigel 2 - The Complex This is Turrican's #WasteMyTime contest entry, so if you already tried it from that, then this one should be quick. At the time when I LPed the rank, I hadn't played it beforehand, so I didn't know the solution yet. The only very hard part is figuring out the correct RR so that everyone stacks up behind one another in order for just one lemming to die to each of the two traps. Not only that, the basher must sync up with them each time. Once you're successful, the rest is easy, with the only remaining hard part is assigning the climber the glider skill at the correct time so that he too goes to the exit.

Rigel 3 (now Rigel 5 in v1.02) - Subspace Way too hard for its position, considering it's not easy to figure out how to contain either entrance. I found containing the left entrance much harder to figure out. All on top of a very high RR. Solution is different from the intended, though I have tried cloning a builder for the left entrance but I never got it to work. Turns out it's pretty precise. I have a stacker left, but that seems to be a prevention thing for the exit area in the case the sliders go out the wrong way, which they will in the experimental NL version. As a result, Turrican changed the skillset to account for that.

Rigel 4 - The Crystalline Fortress (part 2) Not a really hard level, but one that I was on longer than I should had been. I really love figuring out that trick to stop the climber/slider hatch from going out the wrong way to their doom: Stacking and using the preplaced lemming to bomb to make a hole so the sliders go back to the right. The only other hard part after that was a pixel precise stoner assignment that allow you to jump to start climbing the wall to dig and release the others to the exit. I kept thinking more than that was needed to do so

Rigel 5 (Rigel 7 in v1.02) - Underwater Caverns Visually impressive level, but it also has drawbacks in that it's a bit hard to tell solid terrain from background in a few places. Another level that's a huge step up in difficulty and therefore originally too hard for its position. Not so surprisingly, I made the solution far harder than it needed to be. In particular, how I did the start with several pixel precise skill assignments and the builder at the very top to make the triathlete go out to the left and get the button. Also the final stacker assignment near the exit at such a time so that the triathlete gets to the trap first before anyone else. I compared to Turrican's intended solution and his has just as much precision, though not nearly as much as mine. In any case, very hard to find solution no matter what you come up with. A lot of my attempts kept leaving me at least a skill short. Also the first level of the pack I needed to use off-camera time to solve.

Rigel 6 (down to Rigel 4 in v1.02) - The Awesome level returns Essentially Taxing 15 from L1 but without builders. Even the builderless version isn't a lot harder. Harder, yes, but not by a lot. It just needs a lot of good timing in order to make steps to get up to the exit. Also you need to save everyone, meaning you must release all blockers you use.

Rigel 7 (down to Rigel 6 in v1.02) - A Place Lost in the Aether Not a very hard level but it is difficult to see what's going on in the level due to silhouette sprites used in said tileset. Much easier if you use CPM, but as my LP shows it's not impossible to solve without it. The only really hard part is the basher/blocker trick, though TBH this is a huge leap for players to come up with, as it's likely something they wouldn't even think to try. I only know about it because of readings I've done on the Lemmings Forums from a long time ago and I used it in a few solutions on some custom levels I've played, though it's not required in them. The only pack I know that does require them is a few levels from Lemmings Uncharted.

Rigel 8 - The Moon on vacation Another really hard level that will look impossible to you if you're not aware that you need to go underneath the level with the shimmiers. Not sure why I didn't catch that before even though I played a level from Uncharted which requires it. Once you see that, the rest is easy, with the only hard part syncing up the release of another lemming with the worker who platforms to the exit so that they are close to each other to allow one to pass by the trap and collect the disarmer pickup. Also you need to discover the stoner/stacker release trick.

Rigel 9 - FC Lems win with Goallem's Hattrick Another hard level. The most difficult to figure out was the start with releasing the right amount of lemmings close to each other so that they can turn around inside the stoner terrain on the far upper right. My solution is a bit harder than it needs to be. Same with the climbers being as close as possible in the huge wall before the exit, where a climber needs to be stuck inside it to be able to bash through. I also taught Turrican a trick where it's possible to use a shimmier right up against a stack to have him bounce back the other way. Even though my solution is a bit harder than the intended way, it's still acceptable.

Rigel 10 - Cyberlems 2555 In its original form, you DO NOT want to play it. Unlike the two versions you see in v1.02, there were no visual indicators in the terrain to help you with the builder placements, therefore it was complete guesswork. You also have to place several of them correctly, which only makes it way more frustrating than it needs to be. On top of that, you also need to make use of the checkerboard mechanic twice so that you make a hole to get to the buttons but the miner continues. The icing on top of all of that is that both miners need to cancel out each other when all is said and done. Needless to say, the original version requires way too much precision on top of blind guesswork, which is definitely asking far too much for a player, even for the final level of the rank. Don't get me wrong, the solution is quite impressive with a very long miner section in both directions, but the extreme precision needed really harms the level, especially when there are no hints as to what the correct placements are and how the builder/miner combo itself is already very precise.

In the newer versions you see, there are markers in the terrain to completely eliminate the guesswork if you're able to figure out what they mean. In addition, two buttons have been removed and also teleporters added in the case you sent out a glider in the wrong direction they will use it to come back to the main part of the level. These are changes which I agree make the original Rigel 10 far better!

The only thing is that I just barely got back to Turrican about them just last night rather than test them before he released an update to the pack, but quite all right. I think he's pleased to hear that I agree the changes are for the better of the level.

Once again, thanks so much to Turrican to Version 2 of Mike's Lemmings. I absolutely enjoyed the new Rigel rank, and I can definitely recommend players to give it a go, but be warned: These levels are considerably more difficult than either the Wild/Wicked ranks of Mike's Lemmings! Again, the high difficulty completely makes sense if you think of the Rigel rank as the equivalent of the Havoc rank from ONML, which comes after both Wild and Wicked from that game. Also thanks to Turrican for watching my LP and the very nice comments!

Turrican · June 14, 2023, 11:10:05 PM

Quote from: kaywhyn on June 14, 2023, 07:22:45 PM
Hi Turrican,

I have solved all of the new Rigel rank, including the original Rigel 10. My entire replay collection is attached.

Thank you for playing the pack, and congratulations on solving it!

kaywhyn · July 09, 2023, 10:52:41 PM

@Icho

When you do go through this pack, please let me know when you have completed Rigel 9. At that point, I'm going to ask you to take a look at the original Rigel 10, which you should still have if you downloaded the original version of the pack, as downloading the most current pack version will not overwrite since the level pack folder is differently named with v1.02 appended at the end. If not, I will send the level file to you. My advice to you here is don't bother with the level any further if you can't get it solved after an hour and instead take a look at the new v1.02 updates to the level

You'll just be wasting your time otherwise.

Turrican · July 09, 2023, 10:59:01 PM

Quote from: kaywhyn on July 09, 2023, 10:52:41 PM
@Icho

When you do go through this pack, please let me know when you have completed Rigel 9. At that point, I'm going to ask you to take a look at the original Rigel 10, which you should still have if you downloaded the original version of the pack, as downloading the most current pack version will not overwrite since the level pack folder is differently named with v1.02 appended at the end. If not, I will send the level file to you. My advice to you here is don't bother with the level any further if you can't get it solved after an hour and instead take a look at the new v1.02 updates to the level You'll just be wasting your time otherwise.

What the original Rigel 10 , has to do with the pack now?
That level is not part of the pack anymore, it has replaced with the two new levels , so it's not required to be completed anymore!

kaywhyn · July 10, 2023, 12:05:05 AM

Quote from: Turrican on July 09, 2023, 10:59:01 PM
What the original Rigel 10 , has to do with the pack now?
That level is not part of the pack anymore, it has replaced with the two new levels , so it's not required to be completed anymore!

Yes, I'm well aware of that. Just comparing experiences is all

Turrican · July 28, 2023, 04:33:44 PM

I have uploaded, the version 1.03 of the pack. It contains a new level. That level is : Bonus 4 - "The House With the Thin Foundations" . That level contains AI art .

In order to play it , you will need an updated version of the "turrican special" tileset . I have attached it in the first post.

I have upladed also , the updated replay collection, which also, contains , the replay of the solution , of the new level.

Also I uploaded , the updated version of the soundtrack of the pack , in my dropbox , and I have posted , in the first post , the link for my dropbox , which contains , the updated soundtrack , of my pack.

Here is how the level looks :

Turrican · September 09, 2023, 05:43:01 PM

I have uploaded, the version 1.04 of the pack. It contains a new level. That level is : Bonus 5 -"The Astral Monolith" . That level contains AI art .

In order to play it , you will need an updated version of the "turrican special" tileset . I have attached it in the first post.

I have upladed also , the updated replay collection, which also, contains , the replay of the solution , of the new level.

Also I uploaded , the updated version of the soundtrack of the pack , in my dropbox , and I have posted , in the first post , the link for my dropbox , which contains , the updated soundtrack , of my pack.

Here is how the level looks :

Turrican · November 13, 2023, 10:35:05 PM

I have uploaded the version 1.05 of the pack. It contains a "Lemmix to Neolemmix" level conversion of "All that a Basher can Do" by Dodochacalo. The level is placed on the Bonus rank ( second level of the rank ) .

This is a level that I had modified from the Lemmix version of Revenge of the Lemmings v1 , some years ago , and also , I had made a version of that , for Superlemmini . The level was in the beta version , of the Lemmix version of RotL , but It was about to be replaced , because in order to be solved , it required a Lemmini-only glitch.

My modifications here , are to make the level possible to be solved , without the use of that Lemmini-only glitch. It is a non-glitch level now , but also it's intended solution is close to the original one.

I have upladed also , the updated replay collection, which also, contains , the replay of the solution , of the new level.

Also , I have uploaded , the updated version of the soundtrack of the pack , in my dropbox , and I have posted , in the first post , the link for my dropbox , which contains , the updated soundtrack , of my pack.

Here is how the level looks (for the ones , that haven't seen the previous versions of the level) :