[DISC][FEAT] Included Level Packs

[WillLem]

We need 11 levels, each of which should match at least one of the following descriptions (i.e. it can be two or more, or you can add your own ideas as long as at least one of these is fulfilled):

1) An L1 level remade using OhNo! styles
2) An L1 level with Mac/SNES counterpart RR/lem count/save req/etc
3) An L1 level with remixed skillset

Some ideas, pending Forum contribution:

Mac version of Steel Mines Of Kessel, featuring 80 lems and a 90% save requirement
"Missing repeat" level Mind The Gap - a "repeat" of Tricky 1 This Should Be A Doddle with more limited skillset and save requirement
"Missing repeat" level Lemmingade Zero - a "repeat" of Fun 3 Tailor-made For Blockers with 0 Blockers

That sort of thing. (Specific) ideas welcome...

[WillLem]

Originally posted 7/7/24

Volunteers Wanted

Well... this is now the only thing slowing down the release of 2.8. I can't manage all of this by myself, so this is a shout out for help with getting this last piece in place. The more the merrier, so don't be shy if you want to get stuck in and help out!

Here's what's needed:



TASK A Completed!

TASK A - 120 levels for Yippee! Even More Lemmings need to be sorted into 4 groups of 30 levels

Ideal requirement: 4+ volunteers including myself (30 or fewer levels each)
Minimum requirement*: 2 volunteers including myself (60 levels each)

This is by far the biggest task, and will likely take a minimum of 1-3 hours depending on how well you know the levels and how quickly you can make decisions about difficulty, etc. For now, this task will only involve sorting the levels into 4 difficulty groups - ordering is a different task and will need to be postponed until this task is completed.



TASK B Part I completed!

TASK B Part I - Yippee! Even More Lemmings levels need ordering within their groups

Ideal requirement: 4 volunteers including myself (1 group each)
Minimum requirement*: 2 volunteers including myself (2 groups each)

There are 4 groups of 30 levels in this pack; each group of levels now needs to be ordered (i.e. the levels have already been sorted into groups). This should take about 1-2 hours per group depending on how well you know the levels and how experienced you are at building level packs.



TASK B Part II - Lemmings Multiverse levels need ordering within their groups

Ideal requirement: 8 volunteers including myself (1 group each)
Minimum requirement*: 2 volunteers including myself (4 groups each)

There are 4 groups of 30 levels in this pack; each group of levels now needs to be ordered (i.e. the levels have already been sorted into groups). This should take about 1-2 hours per group depending on how well you know the levels and how experienced you are at building level packs. If you're relatively inexperienced, it will probably take longer, but can be seen as a very good exercise that may help you when it comes to building your own pack in the future!



TASK C - Lemmings Multiverse needs 11 more levels

Ideal requirement: 11 volunteers including myself (1 level each)
Minimum requirement*: No minimum volunteer requirement (i.e. I'm happy to contribute all 11 levels myself if necessary), but Task A and Task B must have enough volunteers for this task to go ahead

See this post for details. If you can contribute just 1 level, that's better than nothing.



*Please note:

I'm leaving this request up until 31/07/24. The minimum requirement for each task must be met within this time for this project to go ahead.

If we only get volunteers/contributions for Task C, and none for Tasks A and B, this will mean that the minimum requirement for Task C has not been met.

If the minimum requirement for all tasks has not been met, then the DMA Compilation Pack will stay as it is (apart from grouping the Holiday levels as Tygerboi suggested, that's already been done) and the proposed re-groupings will be cancelled due to lack of interest/support.

If you wish to put yourself forward as a volunteer to get some of this done, thank you! Please reply to this post and mention which task(s) you'd be interested in helping with. The more the merrier - hopefully this can prove to be an interesting community project!

[WillLem]

Thanks to @ericderkovits who has volunteered for and completed Task A by himself - great work, Eric!

[Proxima]

I'm not sure how much I believe in this project, but if it's going to be done, it's worth making sure it gets done well so I could help with task B if you can give us the groups from task A as a starting point.

[WillLem]

if it's going to be done, it's worth making sure it gets done well so I could help with task B if you can give us the groups from task A as a starting point.

Agreed, thanks Proxima. Your help with this will be much appreciated!



We have all levels grouped into 4 categories in each pack now. All that remains is to order the levels within their groups. So, let's concentrate on ordering for now.



If you (yes, you!) want to take part, please grab one or both of the zips and have a look at the groups of levels. At present, they are grouped more or less correctly by difficulty, but now need to be ordered from 1-30 within each group.

However you decide to order them, please keep the level filename the same, and only change the number at the start. So, for example, let's say that it's decided that this level should be level 15:

06_Lemming_And_Lime

It would need to be renamed to:

15_Lemming_And_Lime

Even if you only order 1 group of levels, that's a valuable contribution to the project. Post your ordered group here in a zip or PM it to me on here or Discord.

N.B. Don't worry about the groups in Multiverse that have less than 30 levels - these can still be ordered, and the 11 additional levels can be worked in later. The important thing at this point is to get a basic order sorted, which can later be re-worked as necessary.



EDIT: Downloads removed

[WillLem]

Progress!

Eric has now ordered Yippee! Even More Lemmings, so all that remains is to order the Lemmings Multiverse levels. I've already made a start with this, but if anyone wants to make any suggestions or submit an ordered group (or even a fully ordered pack!), we can extend the deadline to 31st July 2024 now that significant progress has been made.

If you wish to get involved, download the attached zip and use this guide to order the levels as you wish:

Guide to ordering levels

However you decide to order them, please keep the level filename the same, and only change the number at the start. So, for example, let's say that it's decided that this level should be level 15:

06_Lemming_And_Lime

It would need to be renamed to:

15_Lemming_And_Lime

Even if you only order 1 group of levels, that's a valuable contribution to the project. Post your ordered group here in a zip or PM it to me on here or Discord.

N.B. Don't worry about the groups that have less than 30 levels - these can still be ordered, and the additional levels can be worked in later. The important thing at this point is to get a basic order sorted, which can later be re-worked as necessary.

Many thanks again to Eric for helping with this so far!



Heads up for volunteers!

Any levels in ohno_brick, ohno_rock and ohno_snow may have exits in the "wrong" position (i.e. too high or too low) - this is not incorrect!

These styles have been updated in SLX 2.8, and the exits are in fact in the correct position for the updated styles. This update has been made in part due to Rivals exit markers now being a thing, and in part due to improved number positions for exits with lem caps.

So, if you wish to playtest the levels, my advice would be to do so using a copy of SLX 2.7.3 and the "old" version of the level. Or, if that's inconvenient and you'd rather just move the exit, that's OK. I'll most likely use a fresh copy to compile the pack anyway, and simply update the ordering as suggested.



EDIT: Download removed

[WillLem]

Well, BIG thanks to Eric Derkovits for re-ordering all the levels in Yippee! and Multiverse - he's done a great job, these packs are near enough ready.

We still need to come up with 11 levels to bring the total number in Multiverse up to 120. I have some ideas, here they are:

Mac version of Steel Mines Of Kessel, featuring 80 lems and a 90% save requirement
"Missing repeat" level Mind The Gap - a "repeat" of Tricky 1 This Should Be A Doddle with more limited skillset and save requirement
"Missing repeat" level Lemmingade Zero - a "repeat" of Fun 3 Tailor-made For Blockers with 0 Blockers
Cascade variation - 100% required
Mary Poppins' Land variation - 100% required
SUPERLEMMING Retuns - a Superlemming level (in the brick style)
Got The T-Shirt - a variation of The Ascending Pillar Scenario which only provides Builders and Floaters, and which requires 100%
Triple Trouble variation - provides only Builders and Bombers
Lemming Sanctuary in Sight variation - entrance and exits swapped, requires Bombers/Miners to ascend through the pipes
POOR WEE CREATURES variation - 100% required (skillset modded to accomodate)
Pillars Of Hercules variation - 100% required (skillset modded to accomodate, remade in crystal style)

Ideas and suggestions are welcome. I'll begin working on the above levels over the next week or so. If no other ideas are presented (or if I don't think of anything better in the meantime), I'll go ahead with these.

[WillLem]

Save 72 of 80 on Kessel seems impossible; it's likely that the Mac version had slightly different terrain which made "lose 8" possible on that platform.

So, that level will have to be something else instead. The others all work fine.

[WillLem]

After a closer look at Multiverse today, a few of the easier levels are actually very close repeats of one another (example: the ZX Spectrum version and NES version of Origins And Lemmings).

It's probably not necessary to include both versions, so in these cases I've opted to keep the NES versions which are usually more decorative than the ZX Spectrum counterpart.

This has left 4 blank spaces in the Basic group, which I've filled by doubling up some of the levels in the Ambitious group which don't already have "Fun"-style easy repeats. This also helps the pack to feel more like a cohesive compilation rather than a haphazard mishmash of random levels.

Eric has done an excellent job of ordering the levels in terms of their general difficulty so hopefully there's not much more to do other than give the pack a quick playtest.

The unofficial levels I've added so far are these:

Additional unofficial levels

Basic 27 The Meeting Place - a Fun-style repeat of Ambitious 8 A Group Of Entrances
Basic 28 Important Choices - a Fun-style repeat of Ambitious 9 It's Not Over 'Til It's Over
Basic 29 Where There's a Will... - a Fun-style repeat of Ambitious 18 Don't Make The Wrong Choice
Basic 30 The Notebook - a Fun-style repeat of Ambitious 20 Lemmings' Ark

Challenging 1 Try Try Again - a Taxing-style repeat of Manageable 11 Roman In The Ruins (If At First You Don't Succeed remake from ZX Spectrum/NES)
Challenging 30 LET'S GET CREATIVE! - a 100% save requirement version of POOR WEE CREATURES!

Ambitious 21 Mind The Gap - a harder version of This Should Be A Doddle (provides only Timebombers and Builders)
Ambitious 22 Lemmingade Zero - a 0-Blockers version of Tailor-made For Blockers
Ambitious 23 Triple Trouble 33 - a harder version of Triple Trouble (provides only Blockers, Timebombers and Builders)
Ambitious 24 SUPERLEMMING Retuns - a new Superlemming level
Ambitious 25 Got The T-Shirt - a harder version of The Ascending Pillar Scenario (100% save requirement, provides only Builder and Floaters)
Ambitious 26 The Quickroute - a more puzzle-focused version of Lemmings In The Attic
Ambitious 27 Pipe Dream - a Bubble remix of Lemming Sanctuary in Sight with a more difficult solution
Ambitious 28 Hail Mary - a 100% save requirement version of Mary Poppins' Land
Ambitious 29 Cascade Part II - a 100% save requirement version of Cascade
Ambitious 30 We'll Meet Again - a Crystal remix of Pillars of Hercules with a 100% save requirement

[Proxima]

Save 72 of 80 on Kessel seems impossible; it's likely that the Mac version had slightly different terrain which made "lose 8" possible on that platform.

So, that level will have to be something else instead. The others all work fine.

What makes it seem impossible? The NL record on that level is lose 6 (with the original skillset, not DOS's 20 of each) and I don't think changes in SL should make that much difference.

Of course, the Mac does have terrain that behaves differently -- the infamous thorns that don't let lemmings past when they should -- but this should make the level easier in NL/SL compared to the actual Mac version.

[WillLem]

What makes it seem impossible? The NL record on that level is lose 6 (with the original skillset, not DOS's 20 of each) and I don't think changes in SL should make that much difference.

I tried for a good 40 minutes or so to find a solution with the 10-of-each and kept failing by 1 lemming.

I have just realised that there may be a different route which might work though, so I will try that before abandoning the level altogether. I don't have my laptop with me at the moment (replying to this on mobile), but I'll take a look at it soon and report back how it goes.

The only real difference in the SLX version is that it gives Timebombers instead of Instabombers, but the actual solutions should be identical.

[WillLem]

OK, I've managed to find a lose-8 on Kessel, but the solution is very fiddly and unintuitive, especially with Timebombers.

The level can be modified slightly so that the originally intended route is possible with 8 lems, but then it feels like it isn't really a significantly different level from the original.

So, currently still favouring one of the alternatives. Maybe the lose-6 is a bit more do-able? I haven't seen that solution yet.

[WillLem]

Turrican shared his lose-6 solution. It's a good one, but requires pixel precision and frame-perfect timing with no margin for error.

Whilst this sort of thing is great for challenge solutions and talismans, ideally the skill assignments in the intended solution should always have a decent placement margin - I'd suggest at least 3 frames as a minimum, 4 as an ideal, unless it's very obvious what needs to be done (e.g. the ending of Save Me provides a 2-frame error margin) and the challenge is in the execution itself. Even then, more is better.

Still undecided, then.

[WillLem]

FINALLY got around to finishing up Yippee! and Multiverse today. It's not perfect, but it's releasable.

Decided to go ahead and include the Mac version of Kessel albeit with a very slight change to the layout which makes it a bit easier. I think this is the best compromise overall.