Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[IchoTolot]

I will probably puzzle myself through the levels in the first week of October as I have the week off there.

I see there are still quite a few backroutes in there.

[kaywhyn]

A little announcement here: Just to let everyone know, Icho will be away until about Monday evening, and so any updates to levels just grab them from the update topic!

@Armani

Finally got around to fixing the backroutes you found to my levels. I really needed the break, fixing my levels up was really stressing me out. Fixing levels is something I hate doing a lot.

R1 - Still a pretty bad backroute. V6 is a big one. Modified the starting area a bit and added a flamethrower, added more steel blocks to the floating steel platform near the start, added a firebox, and added a 3:45 timer. My guess is that the timer will drastically cut out a lot of backroutes, even if it doesn't block all. So, now you'll have to do a lot of multitasking!

R2 - I knew I should had put OWAs on the rest of the terrain near and below the exit That's really the only change for V11, and also some OWAs on the slanted platform around the middle left too.

I also resolved your R3. This seems intended now!

Spoiler

The hardest thing to see here was how to use the blocker. It almost doesn't work, as my solution relies on the climber getting past the final lemming that comes out of the trapdoor so that I could hold him in place and release him with a nearby non-climber bomber later. The rest was easy after that, although sacrificing a lemming to the bottomless pit after building the landing bridge at the bottom was also hard to see. Before this, I kept blocking with the climber on the staircase and bombing him free with the miner when he came back. However, this created the problem in that the climber goes over the bombable thin wall before I could get a non-athlete there on time. So, it at least told me I was on the right track.

Needless to say, the little change you made to the steel block where the water pit is made the solution a bit more obvious, as it pretty much screamed out that I could no longer use that area for any shenanigans. Granted, I still tried some things there, but for the most part it almost can be ruled out completely.

[Armani]

@kaywhyn
Yeah~ that's exactly intended

Needless to say, the little change you made to the steel block where the water pit is made the solution a bit more obvious, as it pretty much screamed out that I could no longer use that area for any shenanigans. Granted, I still tried some things there, but for the most part it almost can be ruled out completely.

Agreed. That has been the most troublesome part even from the testing phase. Now it seems pretty obvious that you cannot use that area to send a climber lemming anymore. But the level still has some puzzle elements to figure out(make the climber a blokcer and release him later with a nearby bomber/sacrifice a lemming to make a builder staircase so the climber lemming can land on later) so I'm happy with that.

[IchoTolot]

I am back again and updated the pack.

I will try and work myself through the levels this week and then post my solutions.

[kaywhyn]

I've finally started recording and uploading my playthrough showing off my solutions to the contest levels. Here's Part 1 which are the R1 levels, and the other parts will follow at a later time. Just like the previous contest, same format, where I show off my solutions and then provide some nice commentary on top of it. I just don't have the time, energy, and motivation to do LPs like I used to, and so the format of playing through the levels in real time where there's a possibility of me being stumped for a long time and hence end up with so many videos won't be happening anymore for future contests. However, I'll still be LPing level packs, that's not going anywhere What is changing is the format I'm using for recording solutions to contest levels.

Part 1: https://youtu.be/ryEctim7oaM

I am back again and updated the pack.

Welcome back, and I'm happy to hear that you had a nice in-person meetup with Simon over the weekend

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, parts 2 and 3 showing my solutions to the R2's and R3's, respectively, are now up. I still need to record showing the intended solutions to my own contest levels, but I will wait to see if they're finally enforced for all my contest levels first. So far, R3 is the only one that seems solid. It's R1 and R2 I need to see if they're fine now.

Part 2: https://youtu.be/2J3ruNKjR3Q

Part 3: https://youtu.be/XIRKOG6PKMQ


@Armani

While watching back my video for the R3 levels just now, I found a sneaky backroute for your R3V2 However, it's very easy to fix by adding in a left facing OWA object on the wall

edit: Ah, no, disregard the suggested fix. I forgot that OWAs are forbidden under this rule since they're not found in L2. It is the easiest fix, though, and can be used after the contest. Guess you'll have to use steel instead in the meantime Interestingly enough, I originally went with OWAs for my R3, but I caught myself just in the nick of time before I submitted my entry, when I remembered they're prohibited

[IchoTolot]

Uploaded my solutions and attached the replays.

Part 1 (rule 1-3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFhU6hhflQw
Part 2 (my levels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_j-ZFQWQCI

[kaywhyn]

@Icho

Already commented on your video about my solutions, but I will post it here as well. In addition, there are some remarks I need to make for R1 that I didn't for your Youtube video.

R1 - That's a backroute, mostly caused by the floating steel platform right where the entrance is. So, for V7 I modified that a bit by removing a steel block and replacing it with some of the smaller square steel blocks. Also shifted the upper left button a few pixels to the right. I don't know if this will be enough, but let's see.

Spoiler

Those two things that you weren't sure about being intended, yes, they both are. That one pixel gap where the firebox is, although maybe later on I could perhaps widened it a bit and maybe do some more layout modifications to make it more obvious that a stacker goes there. Same thing with bashing on the steel to turn, that's also intended.

However, there are also two other main tricks I intended that are missing and hence a fix is required. Again, not sure if the changes will be enough for V7, but let's see. Perhaps once the intended solution is fully enforced you'll probably like the homage I made to your United level "Victory is Inevitable" (Neutrality 7) even more

R2 Ugh, once again another backroute due to the laser It's so powerful! For V12, I simply added a water object in the pit where you shortcut the level with the unintended use of the laser.

R3 100% intended! Let's say this level was inspired by both you and Armani You because of the Forgotten Refinery trick, Armani because of Triple Trouble in Space, and the trick required in my level here is simply a variant of each of your guys' levels. Nevertheless, I still think this is a very meh and lame level of mine IMO    

[IchoTolot]

@kaywhyn Smells like more backroutes.

[Armani]

Here're my new solutions to kaywhyn's rule1 and 2.
Now I think at least I found the intended solution to rule2 level

[kaywhyn]

Icho, Armani

R1 - Both are backroutes, and it's clear to me that the blockers are the main source of evilness of the backroutes. So, away they go from your skill panel at the start and are pickups for V8! As usual, this is my method of fixing backroutes as a last resort, as you both know how much I hate using pickups for that purpose because of how I think the solution will be too obvious now, but I've been proven very wrong by the both of you as you two have repeatedly told me that my level(s) are still quite difficult despite them. I was thinking of making one of the stoners a pickup as well, but I think this might be enough now? Even if the intended solution still isn't 100% enforced, I think we will at least be getting pretty close! Now I know how Icho feels when I kept backrouting his R1 so much during pre-testing

R2 - Icho's solution is once again a backroute. It never occurred to me that area would be a problem there too! So, for V13 I added left and right facing OWAs on that triangular block of terrain in the upper right area. Armani's solution is 100% intended, nice job! Icho technically has the intended solution as well, although he 100% correctly described it verbally in his playthrough video. However, I'm very thankful for his backroute solutions showing me that it's not quite enforced and properly patched up yet. This will hopefully be it now!

In any case, I'm hoping I killed two levels with one big backroute proof stone with the changes, and again if not, I'm thinking we're getting close with my R1!

[IchoTolot]

For Crane's update nothing changed for my solutions.

For kaywhyn I have more backroutes.

[Crane]

I can't seem to find your replay, @IchoTolot

[IchoTolot]

I can't seem to find your replay, @IchoTolot

These are still the old ones I posted earlier. Attached them again here.

[Crane]

Well, thankfully they're both intended!  Well done!

Spoiler

The secret is to not assign a Climber or Glider for as long as possible.