Lemmini

[finlay]

Do you really not get the water effect on the DOS version? :huh2:

I was quite disappointed when I went from playing on the mac to playing on the Playstation, where it didn't have the water effects in that level (and in fact, most levels which should have water right across the bottom of the level didn't in that version, annoyingly; I seem to remember something similar with the Windows version but my mind might be playing tricks on me).

Also, do you definitely need to buy Windows Lemmings? I'd love to try this out...

[ccexplore]

Do you really not get the water effect on the DOS version? :huh2:

You don't, but that's not too surprising since there's a lot of missing water/lava/acid on the DOS version anyway throughout all the levels.̆ I think it's probably mainly a performance or memory issue.

I was quite disappointed when I went from playing on the mac to playing on the Playstation, where it didn't have the water effects in that level (and in fact, most levels which should have water right across the bottom of the level didn't in that version, annoyingly; I seem to remember something similar with the Windows version but my mind might be playing tricks on me).

No you remember correctly, the Windows version is also missing water like the DOS version.̆ I also agree that the PlayStation and Windows version have no excuse to have missing water, since performance and memory concerns are unlikely to apply at that point in time.

Also, do you definitely need to buy Windows Lemmings? I'd love to try this out...

Well, I don't really want to parade this, but I think I mentioned this on the forums some time ago anyway so:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=/winlemm_data.zip
(This is in the "Root" directory of Mindless's file portal.)

This only contains the data files for Windows Lemmings, which is all you need for Lemmini.

[finlay]

OK.... but what about the screenshots on "The Lemmings Solution" website? Are they from the Amiga or something? Most of them have water in all the right places.

[wysiwyg]

It might be the Atari St Version thats used on the lemmings solution site.

You can see the acid effect on Poles Apart if you look on the planet lemmings website:

http://www.deveria.com/alexis/lemmings/lemmings/amigacodes.html

[0xdeadbeef]

Long time no see...

Fixes/changes 0.76 -> 0.77
# Fixed long overlooked timing bug in sleep mechanism.
# Added new comments for level lost but 50-95% saved and 95-100% saved (of the
   ones needed)
# Fixed number of lemmings from 80 to 100 in Tricky 25 (checked with Amiga version)
# Added 3 select types, selectable using cursor keys:
   cursor left:  only lemmings headed left are selectable
   cursor right: only lemmings headed right are selectable
   cursor up:    only walkers are selectable

[Mindless]

woot, glad to see you're still working on this even though the community has all but died <_<

[0xdeadbeef]

Well, I just spent a few hours this weekend to complete the cursor thing that I started some months ago but then lost interest. This doesn't neccessarily mean that there will be more updates soon though
Indeed, I think that Lemmini's pretty much complete. There are some minor issues I'm aware of, but as all levels are playable at the moment, I'm not so keen on changing the game mechanics and risk making levels unplayable again.
There are things like fullscreen mode or two player mode over internet that I may or may not add sometime in the future.
Anyway, Lemmini is by far more complete then I ever hoped it would be, so chances are that there will be only minor updates and bug fixes and no major improvements.

[WNivek]

I've been messing around, using Lemmix to convert various levels to Lemmini's file format, and appear to have found a small flaw in the latter. The maxFallDistance setting in my levelpack.ini doesn't appear to function.  I have a level here that relies on the slightly extended drop-height available in certain versions, but no matter what I set that variable to, they still splat just the same.

Also, and this is VERY minor, but on the between-level screens, during the fade-out after selecting an option, you can click again to restart the fade.

[0xdeadbeef]

I've been messing around, using Lemmix to convert various levels to Lemmini's file format, and appear to have found a small flaw in the latter. The maxFallDistance setting in my levelpack.ini doesn't appear to function.  I have a level here that relies on the slightly extended drop-height available in certain versions, but no matter what I set that variable to, they still splat just the same.

True. Indeed it works if you put the maxFallDistance into the level file instead of the levelpack.ini. But as far as I remember, that's not what I indended to do.
Since you're probably more or less the only person to make Levelpacks for Lemmini: would you prefer to set the fall distance on a level or levelpack basis?
Maybe it would be a good idea to read a default value from the level pack but still be able to set it for each level.

Also, and this is VERY minor, but on the between-level screens, during the fade-out after selecting an option, you can click again to restart the fade.

Funny, never noticed this. Probably a quirk in my fading state machine...

I'm a little tired and lazy right now, but I'll have a look on both issues the next days...

[WNivek]

I like that idea about specifying a standard splat-height in the pack, with the option of setting different distances for specific levels.

Out of curiosity, is there any way to effect the level passwords beyond just setting the initial key? I've converted Martin Zurlinden's Lemmings - a 30-level pack which originally resided in 'Tricky'. I want to keep it authentic by retaining its original codes, but as far as I can tell, the only way I can do that is by preceding the actual levels with dummy level-entries. Any chance of a sort of 'initial level number' option? If not, it's not that big a deal... with the various player ini files keeping track of levels unlocked, the passwords are somewhat depreciated.

Oh, that reminds me. It's possible to crash Lemmini by entering codes for level 1 of any difficulty.

[0xdeadbeef]

I like that idea about specifying a standard splat-height in the pack, with the option of setting different distances for specific levels.

Ok, I think I'll go that way then.

Out of curiosity, is there any way to effect the level passwords beyond just setting the initial key? I've converted Martin Zurlinden's Lemmings - a 30-level pack which originally resided in 'Tricky'. I want to keep it authentic by retaining its original codes, but as far as I can tell, the only way I can do that is by preceding the actual levels with dummy level-entries. Any chance of a sort of 'initial level number' option? If not, it's not that big a deal... with the various player ini files keeping track of levels unlocked, the passwords are somewhat depreciated.

Hm, I understand Martin's levels started with Tricky 1, so the first level code would be "HCEONONPDX"? I guess it would be possible to handle this by adding an offset parameter to the levelpack.ini. Something like this:
    codeOffset = 30
By default, it would be 0. Probably I'll implement this for the next version if I don't find any drawbacks.
Note though that this reduces the maximum number of levels in the levelpack.  The maximum number is 127, so for an offset of 30, the maximum number would be decreased to 97.

Oh, that reminds me. It's possible to crash Lemmini by entering codes for level 1 of any difficulty.

Damn, you're right. A bug in the decoding the absolute level number to difficulty level and relative level number. I already fixed this locally, so it will be ok in the next version. Thanks for telling me.

[WNivek]

Hm, I understand Martin's levels started with Tricky 1, so the first level code would be "HCEONONPDX"? I guess it would be possible to handle this by adding an offset parameter to the levelpack.ini. Something like this:
    codeOffset = 30
By default, it would be 0. Probably I'll implement this for the next version if I don't find any drawbacks.
Note though that this reduces the maximum number of levels in the levelpack.  The maximum number is 127, so for an offset of 30, the maximum number would be decreased to 97.

I made a slight mistake in my post - it's actually 'Taxing', not 'Tricky'. But yeah, a codeOffset setting would do the trick.
As for reducing the number of levels... I honestly don't know much about the Lemmings level code format, but would it be possible to 'wrap' the codes, so if you're on an offset of, say, 60, once you get past the max level of 67 (with code 127), level 68's code would wrap to 0 with subsequent codes counting up to 59?
Again, it's not that big a deal. I don't intend to use this offset option terribly often - only reason for it here is to preserve a converted pack's existing codes, and since such packs would have similar limitations, you'd never get one trying to go higher anyway.

Out of curiosity, what would happen if I assembled a pack with more than 128 levels? I've started converting various people's levels, with intention to keep them grouped together by creator, but some people have made more than 128 levels. I wouldn't wanna break those up, but it's starting to sound like I may have to.

[0xdeadbeef]

I made a slight mistake in my post - it's actually 'Taxing', not 'Tricky'. But yeah, a codeOffset setting would do the trick.

Just another offset then.

As for reducing the number of levels... I honestly don't know much about the Lemmings level code format, but would it be possible to 'wrap' the codes, so if you're on an offset of, say, 60, once you get past the max level of 67 (with code 127), level 68's code would wrap to 0 with subsequent codes counting up to 59?
Again, it's not that big a deal. I don't intend to use this offset option terribly often - only reason for it here is to preserve a converted pack's existing codes, and since such packs would have similar limitations, you'd never get one trying to go higher anyway.

Sure, you're right, I could use "level % 128" to wrap around.

Out of curiosity, what would happen if I assembled a pack with more than 128 levels? I've started converting various people's levels, with intention to keep them grouped together by creator, but some people have made more than 128 levels. I wouldn't wanna break those up, but it's starting to sound like I may have to.

Well, from what I've re-learned by quickly looking into the levelcode algorithm, I'd say that the absolute level number can only be a value of 0..127 (7bits). This is not restriction of Lemmini though. Also, while I didn't really think about it, I guess it would be possible to extend the algorithm for larger level numbers if you need that. E.g. using 11 or 12 characters instead of 10.
What would happen at the moment is another questions. I'd guess that the game itself would work ok, but the level codes for levels beyond the 128th would be wrong and you couldn't select them. I would assume that e.g. beating the 130th level, you would get the level code of the 2nd level and if entering this code, you would start with the 3nd level as well. Then again, I didn't investigate further, maybe the level code would also get corrupted or maybe even I check the number for overflow and throw an exception. Anyway: it wouldn't work correctly right now since the default algorithm can't handle it.

[0xdeadbeef]

This can be considered a WNivek release

Fixes/changes 0.77 -> 0.78
#  Fixed embarrasing bug that would crash Lemmini if a levelcode for any first level
    of a diffculty level was entered.
#  Fixed bug in fade in/out code that would restart fading again and again each time
     the left mouse button was clicked.
#  Parameter "maxFallDistance" in levelpack.ini was ignored. Now it can be set in
     the levelpack and additionally for each single level. Default if omitted is 126.
#  Implemented parameter "codeOffset" of levelpack.ini to give the first level a
     higher levelcode. Untested and experimental.

@WNivek: please have a look at the maxFallDistance and CodeOffset features. I just hacked it in, but didn't test it.

I also checked the level number restricitions again. Looks like Lemmini would currently  throw a null pointer excpection in case you win a level with a number > 128 since the algorithm can't handle it and returns a null pointer instead of a string.

[WNivek]

I haven't done extensive testing, but Martin's pack now has Taxing passwords, matching the level codes file he included with the original download, and If I want, I can bundle my experimental mFD=1 level in with a set of mFD=132 levels.
maxFallDistance and codeOffset appear to function as advertised.