Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

Armani · November 18, 2021, 04:38:18 AM

resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION
I know my solution to EMERGENCY EVACUATION is intended and also think my solution to Clone Survival in the Jungle is now very close to intended.

Clone Survival in the Jungle

Finally my solution contains 3 certain tricks. 1)Block at the button and later release him with a bomber from below/2)cloning builder three times to make a turning point for the crowd/3)canceling basher with a blocker. I'm not quite sure if my solution is intended cos the 3rd trick is something you can't see very often in custom level due to it being precise and timing heavy.

EMERGENCY EVACUATION

Ah that makes sense then. So far I've thought the skillset is way too generous for this level. Now this level gives only 2 destructive skills which means you have to blast at least 2 holes with the laserer.

kaywhyn · November 18, 2021, 05:58:55 AM

Quote from: Armani on November 18, 2021, 04:38:18 AM
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle
...my solution to Clone Survival in the Jungle is now very close to intended.
Clone Survival in the Jungle
Finally my solution contains 3 certain tricks. 1)Block at the button and later release him with a bomber from below/2)cloning builder three times to make a turning point for the crowd/3)canceling basher with a blocker. I'm not quite sure if my solution is intended cos the 3rd trick is something you can't see very often in custom level due to it being precise and timing heavy.

You are correct with the first two tricks, not so with the third one. I almost wanted to accept this solution as an alternative, as it simply uses a few skills in different locations from the intended, but as it's already quite precise, I would like to reduce it for players wherever I can help it. I wanted to avoid doing so for a long time, but alas I caved and went with it. The only changes made with V9 are more pickups. From what you described, it sounds like this level's still really hard despite the presence of a few pickups. So, I think you're in agreement that my R2 is my hardest level out of my other two entries

Armani · November 18, 2021, 11:17:56 AM

resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle.
I invested one more basher so the timing things are not needed anymore.

kaywhyn · November 19, 2021, 05:49:44 AM

@Armani

This would had been an acceptable solution for me, but as there is one part in the spoiler that's not supposed to happen, as well as another part that isn't quite intended, let's try one more time with V10, where I made the blockers pickups and two of the bashers pickups.

Spoiler

No, you're not allowed to bomb at the far right to make a turning point for them!

Otherwise, I think this would had been an acceptable solution, but as there's still one part of it not quite intended another patch is needed

kaywhyn · November 19, 2021, 11:09:01 AM

In general, the R2 levels were quite tough. At the same time, finally figuring them out was quite satisfying. In particular I must say KingShadow3's R2 was super satisfying to figure out.

Armani's GOTTA SWIM FAST R2V1

You've already mentioned that I got the intended solution here. Nice level. I don't know why I struggled with this one, as now that I look back, it's not that hard at all. A lot of my attempts kept coming up a laserer short.

eric's Save Me Once More R2V4

Deceivingly tough, although moreso than the level found in the OL. Unfortunately, my solution is a backroute, as I have a lot of skills leftover

However, I do question the eligibility of this level for the contest, because you already released this level in your own level pack earlier this year, and so I don't think you're allowed to do this, taking a level from your pack, making some changes, and then release it as a contest level. However, your "Room is Boiling" is fine for LDC #21, as it was first a contest level and then you later publicly released it in your own level pack. Also, I got to say I'm still a bit upset that you haven't come forth to make up to me when I asked you twice to run by me any changes you made to my PSP conversion pack and you didn't do so by ignoring my requests and doing as you please with them.

KingShadow3's Silence in the Library R2V1

This one was quite a tough one, but a really good one! It's quite obvious what the general solution is, where you need to guide the preassigned climber hatch to the exit on the far right, and similarly guide the preassigned slider hatch to the far left exit, but how to do so is hard. In particular, I had a much harder time trying to figure out how to get the climber hatch to the exit. I do have a shimmier leftover, but I'm guessing my solution is still fine? I'm not sure if the area with the OWW is a red herring.

mantha16's Bolemian Rhapsolem R2V1

I like how the title is a twist on the Queen song "Bohemian Rhapsody." Nice to see a somewhat easy level here, but it still packs a punch. I like how you put your username and a heart with an arrow through it not far from it. Nothing you did, but I personally dislike the color purple. Again, not your fault.

Niesch's Aerial Antics R2V5

Deceivingly tough level here, just like most of your levels. In particular, it can be hard to find how to save your builders for the critical parts. Nice job here with a quite decent puzzle! This is an outdated version, where you already told me my solution is a backroute, so you patched it out with V6 by putting steel where the masher trap is.

The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... R2V3

Nice level with just bashers and builders. This definitely reminds me of WillLem's R1 LDC #22 level, because it also is bashers and builders. I could have had a basher left had I placed a builder near the beginning more carefully, but this solution should be fine.

Kingshadow3 · November 19, 2021, 11:41:51 AM

Quote from: kaywhyn on November 19, 2021, 11:09:01 AM
KingShadow3's Silence in the Library R2V1

This one was quite a tough one, but a really good one! It's quite obvious what the general solution is, where you need to guide the preassigned climber hatch to the exit on the far right, and similarly guide the preassigned slider hatch to the far left exit, but how to do so is hard. In particular, I had a much harder time trying to figure out how to get the climber hatch to the exit. I do have a shimmier leftover, but I'm guessing my solution is still fine? I'm not sure if the area with the OWW is a red herring.

I regret to say that there is a backroute in your solution.

Spoiler

It's what happens at the top of the level with releasing the climbers and getting the sliders to their exit.

I've uploaded my V2.

ericderkovits · November 19, 2021, 07:13:39 PM

Uploaded V5 of my Rule 2 level which more steel is added to prevent the bad backroute found by kaywhyn.

The Tomato Watcher · November 19, 2021, 08:21:04 PM

Quote from: kaywhyn on November 19, 2021, 11:09:01 AM
The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... R2V3

Nice level with just bashers and builders. This definitely reminds me of WillLem's R1 LDC #22 level, because it also is bashers and builders. I could have had a basher left had I placed a builder near the beginning more carefully, but this solution should be fine.

Minor backroute there, just updated my level to version 4 to address it.

Spoiler

I would recommend saving that basher you mentioned this time, since in my intended solution, you have less leeway unless you want to deal with annoying lemming timing.

Armani · November 20, 2021, 03:27:54 AM

resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle.
This might be it

95% sure

kaywhyn · November 20, 2021, 04:00:20 AM

@Armani

Finally! This is 100% intended. Great job

Spoiler

As you can see, I was trying to get you to go away from cloning the miner to send a climber up the very far left, but alas it appears I failed spectacularly in that regard for 9 versions

That's why I hesitated to make the bombers and blockers pickups too, because I felt the solution would be way more obvious then. Still, I wanted to leave it as a complete red herring so that if you try it you'll always be at least a skill short. However, as I prompt some feedback about the difficulty from you on Discord, you have told me that it's still a very hard to find solution despite the new pickups, so I've been proven wrong there about the solution being more obvious.

kaywhyn · November 21, 2021, 07:54:58 AM

Finally solved all the R3 levels and hence the entire contest pack. Here are my replays. I have also attached the solutions to my levels just so I don't forget to do so later on in case anyone is interested in the intended solutions to them, with the exception of my R3, which is an open-ended level and hence I don't have any specific solution in mind. Or, you can also watch Part 5 linked below, as I show off the solutions to my levels, along with some possibly interesting facts/explanations which may or may not be of interest to you

Also links to all my LP videos of the Rule 3 levels:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uteN7jD3YW4

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidkniIhmtE

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxm900TuNVA

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-PeWc0R9Rc

Part 5 and Solutions to my Contest Levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrAJdX4Psk

These levels were also challenging, although maybe not as much as the R2 ones, which I felt were the hardest, possibly including my own, but I still feel it isn't as hard as all the other R2's.

Armani's Trial By Fire V1

Nice level here! Looking back, I don't know why I struggled with this level too, as, at least for the left set of pickup skills, it turns out I simply missed building one staircase so that I can send another lemming over the top, as otherwise only a climber can go through the top. I think it's because I was too focused on making sure that no one else would fall and get trapped at the bottom. Not to mention that it might had been a waste of a builder otherwise. Nice job tripping me up with the red herrings

Here, I don't know if this is a slight backroute, as I ended up saving 1 over the requirement

I think I will try and find the second intended solution with the set of pickups on the right off-camera. I've also pointed it out on Discord, but the track for your R3 is super loud, to the point that it can potentially be deafening. I'm not sure if there's anything you can do on your end to make it softer, though, but for the player one could simply reduce the device's volume.

Kingshadow3's Revenge of the King

You already told me that my solution is "pretty much the intended solution," although in Armani's case he was able to save a walker, but it's due to very good timing. I really like this level of yours, particularly since I love the puzzle and the fact that this is in the Circus L2 tileset, which is one of my favorites from the game

So, it seems that you've learned so much with being able to make difficult levels in a very short amount of time. Not sure if you been playing a lot of difficult packs, or if you been watching my LP videos on various packs to help with this. Needless to say, I'm quite impressed by your levels even though this is only your second contest!

tan x's EMERGENCY EVACUATION

Wow, I really like this level of yours!

For such a small area to do work in, it's a very deceptively difficult level. As it turns out, I did the part with the laserer wrong this entire time and instead kept doing it on the right side

I especially love the trick of assigning a lemming a laserer right in front of the trigger of the teleporter so that when it catches him, he continues to do so in order to release the neutrals. Before doing that, he makes a tunnel for the crowd to get up via two builders. I really like the timing here so that the teleporter stops him before the laserer can breach the ceiling and release the top zombie entrance. The rest of it is simply getting everyone to the exit before the bottom left zombie entrance catches up and infects any of them. As a result, I absolutely love the sense of urgency due to the zombies, the time limit, AND from the level title. Nice job with stumping me for a while here

All rightie, I think I will return in about a week to resolve updated levels where my solution is a backroute. I will be very busy in the upcoming week due to the Thanksgiving holiday and hence there won't be as much activity from me during that time, particularly since my brother will be in town and I'll be busy spending time with him that I otherwise won't be able to after this holiday is over. I need a break from these contest levels, anyway. These are all challenging but in a good way!

Armani · November 21, 2021, 09:18:17 AM

Close enough

There're some minor differences between your solution and mine but that's fine. I will attach my first solution to the level rather than explaining the differences one by one.

Yeah I agree that the music to my rule3 level is quite loud. I'm the kind of person who listening to music at high volume while studying, drawing, taking shower, literally anytime. Well I watched part of your video and I figure that the loud music can be annoying to LPers and viewers.

Probably I've got to pick the music more carefully next time.

kaywhyn · November 21, 2021, 09:27:31 AM

Oh wow, nice solution there with the skillset I collected

Also, I forgot to mention it, but in Part 5 after I showed off my solution to my R3, I want to let you know that I also show off your solution to it, as I really love your solution in how extremely efficient it is in terms of the amount of skills you were able to save

∫tan x dx · November 21, 2021, 03:48:26 PM

@kaywhyn A correct solution! Well done!

I enjoyed watching your videos. It's always very entertaining to see you explain your thought process.

kaywhyn · November 22, 2021, 07:16:06 AM

Quote from: ∫tan x dx on November 21, 2021, 03:48:26 PM
@kaywhyn A correct solution! Well done! I enjoyed watching your videos. It's always very entertaining to see you explain your thought process.

Hi tan x, thanks so much for letting me know that my solution to your R3 is intended! As usual, I'm very happy to hear that you've been enjoying watching me solve levels and hearing my thoughts on how I go about doing it in real time on camera

I hope that you've enjoyed hearing insights on my own contest levels in the latest LP video as well, even if I kept going off on tangents

As you might have gathered, I'm still more of a level solver than a level maker

However, I have not ruled out the possibility of a future level pack of my own