Lemmings Quartet (v1.5) [Difficulty: Medium-Hard]

[Armani]

resolved updated 3 levels
I attached my entire replays but you only need to check Quartet13,15 and 16.

I think 13 and 16 are now intended but 15 is still a backroute.

[Apjjm]

Both 13 & 16 are the intended solutions . Your solution to the new extra level is clever too!

As you said, 15 is still not as intended (though it isn't exactly a mile away). I will have a bit of a think about how to adjust that shelf area a little more - hopefully a small change is enough to do the trick.

Thanks for taking the time to replay the levels after the fixes - on the next update I will make sure to add a thanks for the resolves after finding the backroutes!

Edit: Have now updated to V1.3 - This changes the skillset a little and does some terrain shuffling on level 15. Most of this isn't about fixing the backroute - though there is now an addition which should hopefully prevent it. I have also done some decorative improvements to level 6.

[Armani]

Resolved level15
I think this is finally intended!

Spoiler

That miner+builder combo is really well hidden in plain sight!
I absolutely love the solution

[Apjjm]

That is the intended solution for level 15

You are the first person to solve all the levels in the pack with the intended solutions that I know of - fantastic solving! Thanks again for sharing the replays/feedback on the levels, and re-visiting levels that have had fixes too.

[kaywhyn]

Hi Apjjm,

I have completed Lemmings Quartet, so I have attached my entire replay collection for the pack. You already know, but I will still go ahead and link my LP of the pack so others can watch it!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsUp6ca6Oh-z-7I-wUlcYf9

General Feedback

For a very modern level pack, this uses only the classic 8 skills. Even then, don't take this to mean that the pack is considerably easier than the packs that use NL exclusive skills, because some of the later levels in the Quartet rank are quite difficult. Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with Apjjm's classification of the difficulty for the pack being Medium-Hard is very accurate here! I even noticed Nepster/Icho design/puzzle vibes while LPing the pack, as there was still a lot of deception in these levels, not in the visual designs, but red herrings. This might be one of the few packs in which no level needed more than one LP video to get solved, but solving times did slow considerably starting around the halfway point of the first rank. This is also the very first time I have ever played any levels by Apjjm, so I didn't know how hard his levels could get. Now I know, he's definitely capable of making deceivingly difficult ones. However, these were the really good kind of challenging for the most part, and some of the hardest levels of the pack end up being my favorites, for which I will definitely put in my nominations for LOTY!

This is also the very first pack I LPed after a long 2-month hiatus from the game, so I was initially fearful that I had lost my touch with solving levels in the game. However, it is likely evident that's not so at all, as I went through the pack much faster than I thought I would. My struggles with many of the later levels were still there, though. Not necessarily a bad thing, just simply means it wasn't all smooth sailing.

Apjjm also puts a lot of attention to details in his designs, as I was very blown-away by how excellent the visuals in his levels are! Thus, not only would I highly recommend this wonderful pack for others to play because of the many great puzzles, but even if you're not able to solve all of them, at least the levels are great to look at!

Quartet Rank Feedback

All very interesting levels IMO. While the pack doesn't start off super easy, the early levels are still reasonably and much easier than some of the later levels. In particular, they get quite difficult near the end of the rank. The pack starts with several open-ended levels before getting into levels with specific solutions with very limited skillsets close to the midpoint of the rank, culminating in 3 very difficult levels before the final one. My favorites of the rank: Quartet 4, Quartet 7, Quartet 16, and Quartet 17. The last one especially, as IMO that is the best one I have played and solved in the longest time. All visually great ones, but I especially love the visuals of Quartet 6, Quartet 9, Quartet 10, Quartet 12, Quartet 14, Quartet 15, Quartet 16, and Quartet 18. Quartet 5 gets bonus points from me because of how I love math and Apjjm did great with the geometry shapes on it Same with Quartet 12, because I love astronomy myself in addition to math. The planets on that level were done well!

More detailed feedback:

Spoiler

Quartet 1 - I forgot to pack! Nice level to start off the rank! Not very hard but at the same time not trivial at all. Even with the very limited skillset, it's still an open-ended level. How did you get the design to look the way it does here? I especially love the touch of the moon in the night sky setting here!

Quartet 2 - A shell game Another great level. I thought this was going to take a while, but I surprisingly solved this one quickly. Nicely done with the snails here! The Snow tileset is certainly one of the harder tilesets to work with, but you did great with it.

Quartet 3 - Permission for takeoff Nice 1-of-everything level in 6 skillset types. I didn't think my solution would work, especially in regards with how I used the digger, but it did, so good enough for me! I checked your intended solution, and I think I like yours better despite how our separate solutions are kind of about the same difficulty.

Quartet 4 - Give me a plaice to stand... I really like this one. It reminds me so much of "Distract Them" from Lemmings Reunion, as it uses a similar tactic of keeping the crowd busy while a worker lemming goes on ahead to forge the path before they get in danger. Nicely done, and the Rock tileset from ONML is one of my favorites, although Bubble is my top favorite from ONML.

Quartet 5 - Simple Geometry Another great level, although my solution is much different but as you have said acceptable. I like how you did the geometric shapes on this level

Quartet 6 - In the ancient glade Very nice design here! Deceptively difficult, although as can be seen in the LP I especially struggled with the exit area. However, it was due to me overlooking something very simple It is interesting how I managed to save up more skills than your solution, but well, anything that solves the level when I'm playing is good enough for me

Quartet 7 - Is the beach day cancelled then? Another one of my favorites of the rank! The hardest part was definitely saving the builder who makes the splatform for the others, as well as how to make sure everyone is safe and no one turns back to the left at the start to die. Very nice solution here. Also checked your solution here, and I can't believe I didn't spot that with building over the first digger pit I like the meteor touch you put in the level here

Quartet 8 - No repairs necessary Somewhat hard but another great one. The start was certainly the hardest, and I was a dummy about how to make a turnaround for everyone so that no one goes out to the left to die, especially for the climbers. My solution uses timing so that someone beats the worker lemming to block so that he just turns back to the exit. Checked your solution, and I definitely like it better than mine.

Quartet 9 - Broken warpgate Ah, a Bubble level, which happens to be my top favorite tileset of ONML. I just love all things bubbles. Nice solution, but very unfortunate that I fell victim to trying to make my solution work and it failing everytime no matter how much or little I kept adjusting the blocker position. I eventually got it to work, but as can be seen in your solution no timing is needed at all. I'm still impressed by the solution due to the compression that's required in order to minimize losses to the trap. Nice job here.

Quartet 10 - Next day delivery Looks intimidating and hence very hard, but it wasn't as bad as I thought. The hardest part of the level would certainly be getting through many of the obstacles with the very limited skillset, especially the digging destructive skills. That was really nice with the truck that has the word Lem on it Once again, love the touch of the moon on the very far right of the level.

Quartet 11 - Castle on the coast I thought this one was hard, especially with saving the non-climber and releasing the pre-placed lemming, but that's because I overcomplicated the solution I definitely like both of your solutions better than mine. I could had avoided the very fiddly block to turn the basher around but the blocker gets released by having the non-climber turn around in the basher tunnel and have him build instead, as the climbers can get back up themselves. Now I'm starting to think that this behavior should be patched out, as I didn't think too much of it at first, but the more I think about it, the more I start to hate it.

Quartet 12 - /The n-body problem The most visually impressive level IMO, even if it's quite bare for the most part. You did great with depicting the planets here, especially the Earth! I can live with your depiction of the bubble planet, as it's my favorite tileset of ONML anyway Another level that looks very hard but it's not too bad at all. It's open-ended for the most part.

Quartet 13 - The long ride home Backroute, as you have mentioned. I checked your solution, and indeed I did think about doing what you did with the basher and miner, I just couldn't think about how to achieve it. Not only was the miner unintended, but the way I got up the level too Even then, nothing that steel or OWAs to prevent my miner usage in order to force the intended solution better.

Quartet 14 - On the button Deceivingly hard level which isn't too easy to work out what needs to happen. My solution spares a blocker, though as you noted it's interesting how the blockers can be used on this level and still produce different solutions. Here, I placed a blocker close to the right edge so that a climber can still get past it from underneath. I also used it to turn a digger, as well as a digger cancelling another digger. This is also a visually impressive level. I especially love how you depicted the four different suits of a deck of playing cards. Are those supposed to be poker chips or the cards themselves where the lemmings start on?

Quartet 15 - Can't stand the heat? Very hard one, where there seems to be way more obstacles to get through than you have digging destructive skills and hence it's very easy to run short on skills. Not easy to know how to navigate the level. Very impressive on the visuals here. I love how various parts of the kitchen are depicted here, such as the sink and frying pans over fire and a pot with boiling water. Nicely done here!

Quartet 16 - A night on the town Another very hard one but another favorite of mine in terms of the puzzle and visual design, so looks like we're in agreement here! The start was especially hard to figure out, and I tried various things there, only to have the solution fail because I won't have enough skills to finish the level later. It was also very hard to figure out where and how to get through the OWW. In the end, it was a lot of fun to play and figure out how to solve the level. I especially love how it needs to be a non-climber to do the final staircase to the exit. Indeed, at one point I thought I had the level solved, except for the problem where the climber would turn back to the left after building and die. Here my solution relied on timing in order for the non-climber to carry the rest of the work before the climber arrived and got into danger. This took some time to get the timing right, but it was really down to bashing at the start earlier so that the climber is slowed even more due to how much terrain he has to climb.

Quartet 17 - Phantom breakout This right here earns a nomination from me for LOTY! The solution is really good and is one of the best levels I have played and solved and have seen in a very long time. The start is the hardest part, figuring out how to get the two non-neutrals to go on ahead without the neutrals being able to follow them. I've seen a United level that uses the trick of raising a wall high enough so that no one can step out, but that is from the same direction as the builder. Here it's from the other side, but same logic applies. Once you figure this out, the rest of the level is easy. It seems that Armani is in agreement with me that this is the hardest level of the entire pack. Nice job, Apjjm!

Quartet 18 - Let's try beach day tomorrow! As noted, parts of the designs of all the previous levels of the rank make an appearance here for the final level of the rank. Even though this is open-ended, I still had so much fun playing and solving the level Very nice level to round off the rank and main part of the pack!   

Extra Rank Feedback

The difficulty pretty much resets back to easy but the levels still get progressively difficult as one moves forward in the rank. Most of the levels here are the original versions of the levels found in the Quartet rank. Some of them come from the now cancelled Aqualems pack. In particular, Extra 1 and Extra 3 were originally from there, as indicated by the level title prefixed by (Aqua). Except for Extra 1, Extra 2, and Extra 5, the rest are based from the level found in the Quartet rank, as can be seen in how very similar the designs are. In a way, I feel they are harder than the ones in the Quartet rank, so I don't know if Apjjm originally wanted a very hard level but then decided to make them easier for the Quartet rank. Even then, they weren't much of a problem, as I ended up getting through all 7 of the levels in the same video.

My favorite of the rank was Extra 3 - (Aqua) Delay line lemmory, with Extra 1 - (Aqua) Four lemming fiesta a close second for favorite, while Extra 5 - Take it up a level I really like visually, especially the pulley thingies lol. Interesting how my favorites ended up being the Aqua ones

More detailed feedback:

Spoiler

Extra 1 - Just like the 1-of-everything skillset, I almost pretty much one-shot the level, save for the builder placement that I screwed up, but that's because I was trying to get the most height possible to prevent splatting Even then, it's still not completely trivial and can still be somewhat challenging to start off the rank.

Extra 2 - Let's hit the town Probably about the same difficulty as the previous one, this one didn't take too long either. I was thinking of temporarily delaying with a destructive skill first so that only one builder needs to be used for the first gap, but as my solution shows using another builder as delay works.

Extra 3 - Really nice puzzle and solution! I think this one is better than Quartet 3.

Extra 4 - Shoes or snails? I thought this one is a tad bit harder than Quartet 2. I originally tried other things but couldn't get them to work. I also thought the climber was a problem, but here I was a dummy and didn't think to use a non-climber to block so that the climber doesn't go out to the right and die.

Extra 5 - Can be hard if one doesn't know the trick of cancelling a digger with a blocker, but I already know it and have seen it so many times, so the level was easy for me. I love how the solution comes together!

Extra 6 - When the chips are down Struggled with this one as much as the Quartet version, although the skillset was adjusted accordingly due to the absence of the button. Once again, it was hard to work out what needed to happening, and the very high RR complicated things even further.

Extra 7 - The quiet shade This one is definitely harder than Quartet 6 and an appropriate level to finish off the pack. Once again, the main challenge was saving the non-climber, as it's easy to save the climbers. It's definitely interesting how the difficulty can change significantly despite the layout being mostly the same and depending on where the exit and entrance are. Here, instead of going up and down the other side with a climber and going straight across, we start at the bottom and must work our way up. Not easy to work out what to do!

Overall, a very well-done pack, and as I said before I highly recommend your pack for others to play! This level pack earns a spot on my all-time favorites list. Thank you very much for this pack, Apjjm. I absolutely enjoyed it from start to finish. I look forward to future content from you, as well as trying out your contest entries!      

[Apjjm]

Thanks for all the feedback and the great videos Kaywhyn! It is really nice to be able to see how you go about solving the levels in addition to the final solutions, and I'm happy to hear you enjoyed your time with the pack. I did leave a comment with thoughts on each of the solutions in your videos, but I will also include it below too:

Spoiler

Quartet 1 - This is a really nice solution with two workers. This one is quite an open ended level with quite a few solutions.
Quartet 2 - There are a couple of solutions to this one! When I was first making this level I solved it using a blocker and freeing it later and didn't realise the overhang trick until much later.
Quartet 3 - You did find a nice solution with the chain on the left for this one - the main solution here uses the digger on the red bricks.
Quartet 4 - Very nice solution! I liked the way you got through the tree-planet-thing in the middle. The name on this one is a bad pun given the rocky terrain at the start is roughly fish shaped.
Quartet 5 - This is not the intended way to get out of the penrose triangle but would make for a good talisman given it saves the climbers!
Quartet 6 - There are a lot of possible solutions to this one - I think i've seen a different solution from everybody who has shared a replay so far! Originally this level was going to involve dropping a lem onto a bridge to repeatedly do the dolly dimple trick, but that kept getting horribly backrouted so I ended up scrapping it and re-worked the level quite a few times.
Quartet 7 - This was one of the first levels I made in the pack & I'm happy the level managed to hold up against the ways of holding the crowd back at the start! I like the way you created the timing gap in this one - any solution that has the basher continue into the hill is good!
Quartet 8 - I'm a huge fan of builderless levels too - I've found there is nothing quite as intimidating as a late-rank builderless level though! I really enjoyed making this level, in fact probably this one & Q16 are my two favourite levels.
Quartet 9 - Sorry this one lead you down a frustating solution path, the intended solve on this one shouldn't require precise spacing/timing but I couldn't work out how to get rid of all timing based solutions on this one. I think the central trick on this level suffers from having 4 lemmings rather than a big crowd - the compression method with the blocker would be completely required if the level was designed around 40 lems. In general I spent quite a lot of time trying to rule out fiddly timing precision for this pack (hence the locked RR for all levels), but I found doing that + backroute fixing around 4 lemmings to be really hard! I will probably adjust the structure under the crane up a few pixels more to hint towards the intended solution some more though.
Quartet 10 - I liked that you used various levels of the bridge area on this one - this one was inteded to be a bit easier and open after the increase in difficulty of 8 &  9. The talisman on this one is quite a nice exta challenge, though I know you tend not to go after Talismans!
Quartet 11 - Nice solve - Your solution using the digger -> blocker to bounce the miner is intended, though as you said you can place things to have the 2nd climber free the blocker rather than needing the cancelling trick.
Quartet 12 - Great solution on this one to get the talisman! The planets here are indeed roughly based on our solar system though I took quite a bit of "creative license" and themed worlds around tilesets too. I guess we don't really have a bubble tileset planet & I can't imagine it would be the most habitable planet if we did!
Quartet 13 - The idea with holding the lemming with the blocker is really clever but sadly the first backroute (this level has had no end of them)! I think I might add a metal spoiler to each of the cars which should hopefully rule out the miner usage.
Quartet 14 - Nice solution! This is a level with quite a few solutions that all use blockers in some interesting way and your solution is good. I do wonder if this is possible without using the floater (if you had the pickup skill from the start), I never was able to quite make it work though...
Quartet 15 - I liked the way you juggled the two workers on this one. This wasn't the intended solution but saves exactly 2 and uses the skills in a clever way so would be acceptable. Having said that I have been undecided for a while about adding a OWW to part of that shelf which would stop this solution working. I'm probably going to add it in the next update because I am still a bit worried about that shelf hiding a save 3 backroute in some way.
Quartet 16 - Brilliant solve! This is was my favourite level to make & style in the pack. I've really liked playing/watching levels over the years that have 2 lemmings the few times I have seen them, so wanted to make a 2 lemming level too. The main solution handles the middle area a bit differently but your solve here is good - You might be interested in checking the replay for that one though as I think you will like the other way the middle area can be handled. I was a bit surprised that sign wasn't splat height but I don't think I'll be raising it - I might adjust the top to be a few px lower so it is a bit more obvious it the fall is safe.
Quartet 17 - It's really impressive you found the intended solution as quickly as you did! This was one of the levels I built by making an area of terrain and trying to solve it in an interesting way, it took me quite a while to find the interaction used here - but when I did I really wanted to build the rest of the level around it.
Quartet 18 - I liked the way you navigated across the terrain with the two workers on this one. As you said, this is very much an open ended and more chill level to finish things on. I built this one based on feedback from WillLem around having a few more open levels in the pack for variety, and I'm really happy I got this feedback. I'll strongly consider closing off future packs in this way too, as making this level at the end of a long development journey on the pack was really quite satisfying from a creators perspective too.

Extra 1 - Nice solution, there are quite a few ways to control/delay the crowd on this one. This was a 2nd rank level in aqualems I think, so any solution that doesn't trivialise it is a good solution.
Extra 2 - The way you released the crowd with the miner was nice on this one. Originally I wanted to require quite a specific solution on this one which would have made it far too hard for an intro level.
Extra 3 - Good solution! I was quite fond of the way the builder was used on this level, so prioritised trying to bring this into quartet.
Extra 4 - Intended solution! I thought it would be kind of fun to include something like this after all the other heavily decorated levels, as quite a few of them started very plain and unthemed.
Extra 5 - Intended solution. The trick on this one was originally part of the solution for Quartet 15 on the pan near the end - the idea was to have a builder place a step through the edge of the pan and cancel the digger with a blocker when the worker came back later. It turns out this was a massive over-complication on my part though, as you could always just dig first and build afterwards. When the trick wasn't required anymore I decided the tutorial didn't really need to be in the main rank anymore.
Extra 6 - This is very close to the solution I had for this one & like with the main rank version there are quite a few. The talisman solution is a bit of a backroute that really can't be fixed without the button - do check the replay if you are interested in it, as it was a rather large "damn" when I first saw it after spending ages decorating the level. In response to your question at the end, the middle section is indeed poker chips with the brick areas representing cards.
Extra 7 - This is a good solution - any solution that builds that bridge at the start is good. This level and it's earlier version have titles based on an area in The Outer Wilds, the 4 level in its own rank idea was also to tie into that reference too. This terrain setup was surprisingly flexible in terms of how many ways you could arrange things to make puzzles even with just the classic skills.

I have now updated the pack to V1.4 to make the improvements & backroute fixes that came up during your playthrough. I have attached the previous version of the pack to this post, so that future visitors to this topic can run the replays above against the levels. The full changelog for V1.4:

Spoiler

Quartet 5 - Added talisman based on solution by kaywhyn
Quartet 9 - Adjusted terrain to make intended solution a bit clearer
Quartet 13 - Added some metal to the cars & added some terrain near the exit to remove a backroute
Quartet 15 - Added a one way wall and an additional object to the shelf
Quartet 16 - Adjusted height of one of the signs to make an alternative solution more clear

Finally, because I was interested I put together a program to find out the full style-set & terrain peice count for the pack. A breakdown is included below:

Spoiler

total: 22531

ohno_brick: 4147
ohno_bubble: 2828
ohno_rock: 2675
ohno_snow: 1116
orig_crystal: 4587
orig_dirt: 661
orig_fire: 1565
orig_marble: 2104
orig_pillar: 1196
orig_sega: 275
sms_crystal: 289
sms_fire: 78 
sms_pillar: 16

l2_beach: 15 
l2_circus: 195
l2_egyptian: 1   
l2_highland: 50 
l2_medieval: 13 
l2_polar: 16 
l2_shadow: 704

Note these counts are taken as if all groups are fully expanded.

If you want to run the code yourself against your own packs, I have put the source code on github for the tool.

[Apjjm]

I have decided to revisit quartet 16 and adjust the sign the other way after remembering some backroutes I found when making the level. I'm not sure if any could still be made to work given how the level has evolved since then, but I decided to be safe and fix that sign. Sadly this means the solution kaywhyn found for this level won't work anymore , but on the plus side, there is still another route to be found

As before, I will attach the previous version of the pack to this reply if you want to play the earlier version of the level - otherwise please grab the latest copy of the pack from the main post

[IchoTolot]

Played through the pack today and attached my replays.

Great pack!

I suspect not many (if any) backroutes.

[IchoTolot]

I forgot the talisman on Extra 6 -- attached a new replay.