Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Armani]

Solved updated levels.

Everything Comes in Twos(V4)

Okay. This has to be intended. Very clever level I would say the most difficult thing was to realize that I should clone the builder to make a safe fall for the crowd and time the second worker so that he slip under to make a stacker turnaround point. Also it took me quite a while to realize that the crowd can make a second round to buy enough time for the worker lemming to finish the final platformer bridge.

Master Of The Minute(V3)

Sorry but I think I broke the level again

Cross Over into the Light My Lems!(V3)

I think I figured out what you meant by missing 1%.

[kaywhyn]

@Armani - Awesome, your solutions to both my R1 and R3 are now 100% intended! Well done!

Spoiler

Everything Comes in Twos? - The only differences here between your solution and mine is I used the climber to bomb inside the stack to release the crowd, as well as platforming to the exit first and then stoning to fill up the gap. However, all the main tricks are there, and this is essentially the same as the intended solution, so this is perfectly fine by me!

I believe you are correct about cloning the builder to make a safe drop for the crowd being one of the most difficult things to see in the level. Also realizing that you only have one chance to bash through the OWW to release the crowd, as once the builder and the clone are done, there's no way for the athlete to get back to the area to bash them out, since he will always land on the floating platform where the masher trap is, and when he drops down from it he glides in such a way where he DOES NOT hit the wall and goes back to the left. Even if he did, as I said before it's impossible to get back there to bash the crowd out due to the slanted platform blocking the climber. Finally, the crowd will always make at least one round back to the top and hence the splatform is absolutely necessary

As you might have seen too, I threw in plenty of red herrings here that can trip people up when solving this level. For example, using a builder to get to the triangular slope on the left side and then using a platformer to get to the exit could certainly work. HOWEVER, how would the crowd get to the exit now that you used that platformer? Also, by attempting this you'll always be at least a skill short. Most importantly, the exit platform is JUST out of reach, being a few pixels too far to seal with a platformer

Thanks for the positive feedback on my R1! I really wanted to avoid using pickups for backroute fixing just so it makes it very clear that the X-of-everything rule is satisfied with the level, but alas as I unfortunately found, backroutes have resulted

Cross Over Into the Light, My Lems! - Yup, you are correct in figuring out that missing 1% The trick I wanted to enforce here was making the solver realize that you must make the miner bash before he breaks through the tiny pixel floor where the two triangular slope terrain connect, as well as going through the main structure with the pipes. The trick with using a builder to extend a miner and the slopes overhead to keep a basher going, I got inspiration from Icho's level "Night of Nights" from Reunion, which is one of my all time favorite levels from that pack!   

Looks like I'm already improving a lot in backroute fixing my own levels in just two LDCs, as here I ended up taking half the amount of versions in contrast to the previous LDC, which was the very first one where I made levels. That is, until Icho or someone else comes along and finds a way to backroute my level(s)

I'll be back in a few weeks to resolve levels, so it'll be some time before I get to resolving your R2.

Thanks so much for playing my levels, as usual, and the really great feedback and compliments on my levels! Regarding your own levels, I think I have to say your R1 is my favorite of the three. Very deceptively difficult but I absolutely love the overall solution and the tricks needed

[Kingshadow3]

Updated Rule 2. I tried fixing Armani's backroute by adding an overhang but then found another backroute myself. I've decided to split builders between 2 pickup skills to fix my own backroute.

EDIT: V4 had a backroute as well that I found so I also swapped the amounts of the two pickup skills.

[IchoTolot]

@Armani    All your solutions to my levels are 100% intended! Great job!

And yes I didn't want to enforce the precise timing on my R3 level. I suspected that it was possible without the walker when making it, but I am not a fan of that and hey the walker did not break anything so far

[IchoTolot]

As updates slow down a bit, I think I will try to record my playthrough on 26th/27th as I have these days off.
So if there are anymore updates waiting in line before that it would be good to get them out in time.

[Armani]

More backroutes

[Kingshadow3]

More backroutes

Did you do these with a previous build of the level? Both Replays don't work with V5. Those backroutes may already have been fixed in V5.

[Armani]

You are right, I wasn't playing the latest version.
Here's the new solution for V5.

[Kingshadow3]

V6 Update. @Ichotolot Make sure you update to V6 of my Rule 2 before you record your playthrough.
I'm starting to regret making this level . I've added a thin OWW to the level. It was going to be a trap but then discovered that based on where it was placed it either could still be cheesed or it broke the intended solution.

[kaywhyn]

Finally back again to resolve updated levels. Resolved KingShadow3's levels, as well as Armani's R2 level. I think KingShadow3's R1 might still be a backroute, as I have a miner and a floater leftover. Also, I simply used a cloner to meet the save requirement.

 Armani's Brakes Failed R2V2

Ok, this should be 100% intended. Wow, even for a small level this is still an extremely deceptively difficult level. This one probably took me a good 40 mins. Here, the hardest part to see was blocking in such a way so that the crowd can pass through the blocker AND step up the thin enough ceiling depending on where you bash in the lower part of the level. The level title was pretty much a hint to that you can't hold back the crowd and instead must keep it going at all times.

I kept running into problems thinking about how can I get two separate lemmings, one for each of the bashable sections. This is where jumping at the extreme edge with the glider is a very good red herring, as only by doing that can you even reach the top platform where the exit is with a worker. The next problem was reaching the bottom platform with him, which could only be done by using a walker to turn around and then platforming. However, by doing this you lose the worker lemming for the top bashing section. So, problem of getting two separate lemmings for each bashing section remains.

Then, it just dawned upon me that one must platform up the tiny gap at the very start. This simple thing was something I overlooked for a very long time, as when solving the level's appearance keeps making you think the platformer goes at one of the gaps where the bashing sections are, where the rope is. That turns out to be completely wrong! So, seeing to platform the very small gap is very hard to see.

So yes, even with V2 no advanced tricks needed at all, although perhaps blocking in the manner described above is probably borderline of being advanced. Here, it's pretty much a variation of a passthrough blocker, but instead of passing through from above, it's done with lemmings from below.

All in all, very well done with a deceivingly tough level!

KingShadow3's Master of the Minute R2V6

Somehow this doesn't feel intended, but it probably is, since everything else I tried I kept being a skill short or the solution fails due to at least a pixel or so, or from running out of time. I got to say, it's definitely a much harder level now. Nice job here if my solution is intended

KingShadow3's Straight and Curved R3V3

This should be fine, even though I have a builder leftover. You did say you the level is open-ended.

[Armani]

@Kingshadow3
This seems better, as I have no leftover skill this time.

@kaywhyn
Intended

 Armani's Brakes Failed R2V2

This is where jumping at the extreme edge with the glider is a very good red herring, as only by doing that can you even reach the top platform where the exit is with a worker.

Spoiler

Good eye, kaywhyn Actually glider+jumper was not enough to reach the top platform at the initial version of the level.
I thought making it possible would be nice distraction from the intended solution.

EDIT: put kaywhyn's post inside the spoiler tag

[kaywhyn]

@Armani Awesome that I now have the intended or acceptable solutions to all of your contest levels Just as a tip, if you quot my post, you'll notice the 2 "spoiler" tags at the beginning and end of my post so that when you click on "preview" you'll see "spoiler" instead of what's underneath, like it is currently. All you have to do is simply take out everything but the sentence you quoted and leave both [spoiler/] tags in so that nothing is revealed unless people click to show/hide.

Your R1 is still my favorite out of your contest levels, although your R2 is a very close tie for my most favorite.

[Kingshadow3]

@Kingshadow3
This seems better, as I have no leftover skill this time.

That is the intended solution.

This means all three of my levels have been solved with the intended solution.

[kaywhyn]

@KingShadow3 Did you check my solutions to the most recent versions of your contest levels? Is my solution to your R1 considered a backroute, or is it intended? Same with R2, is it intended now?

[Kingshadow3]

@KingShadow3 Did you check my solutions to the most recent versions of your contest levels? Is my solution to your R1 considered a backroute, or is it intended? Same with R2, is it intended now?

Rule 1 is a backroute I've updated the level.
Rule 2 is intended.
Rule 3 can spare 1 constructive skill in the solution.