[SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.2 Update]

[ericderkovits]

ok, there is a problem with

Danger 25 in Superlemmini

bashing into that left steal vertical beam won't turn around the lemming (required for the solution). And the lemming can't just climb the beam to turn around since there is no floaters in the level.


here is the Youtube video for SL's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIbLDffvZ3k

and here is the Neolemmix version

where the basher will bash into the steel and turn around (required for the solution)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsxp0EbhCig

[kaywhyn]

Replay for Danger 25 attached proving it's still possible.

This new replay works fine, but he builds the steps much higher too.

Yea, I built a little further back. As I mentioned before, WillLem's replay works for me, so it's possible that it's simply something on your end. Not sure what it can be. Can probably try redoing the extraction process again, although it might be such that there's no need to extract resources in the next update or so.

Thanks for the replays guys, confirmed that they both work for me. Interesting little individual variations in both of your solutions which is always fun to see

The beauty that is the game of Lemmings

[WillLem]

Danger 25 in Superlemmini

bashing into that left steal vertical beam won't turn around the lemming (required for the solution)

Replay for Danger 25 attached proving it's still possible.

Hmmm. I haven't reached this level yet but will get this sorted tomorrow; if it's a fix that's required for the intended solution, then it's worth doing.

Thanks for the heads up, guys

[jkapp76]

I think my issue is probably that I overwrote something with a file from an older SL version.
I can't get it to extract again... in the two minutes I had to try.
I used SL alot in 2016... then came back to it this year and reinstalled my old things in it. I tried not to do this, but it's my guess.

I'd like to fix it, but I haven't noticed any issues until now.

[ericderkovits]

I think Danger 26 needs a fix as trying to solve the level the intended may not work as putting blockers on the end of builder steps while another one is building
to turn him around seems to not work(especially builders building left). And to do it 4 times (2 times in each direction)

I can't seem to do it. If anyone can solve this level the intended way and succeed, then post the replay.


Also the flamethrowers need adjusting as one can just send the climbers up to either exit and they won't die from the flamethrowers (not supposed to happen)

[kaywhyn]

Yea, Danger 26 is possible but it's extremely annoying to do. Replay attached. Therefore, no change to the level is needed, though it is harder to do on Superlemmini than intended. Note that this is a left exit solution. The right exit appears to be impossible with the given skillset. With one more builder, then it will be possible. With some testing, apparently lemmings going to the left fall off a builder staircase much earlier than those going to the right. Not to mention that most of the time the builder doesn't even turn around when setting a blocker going to the left. As for the other side, lots of framestepping to achieve blocking and the lemmings still being able to go up on the builder staircase in the other direction. They have to be placed pixel perfect. To be fair, NL also requires pixel perfect blocker placements as well when turning builders.

Regarding the flamethrowers, the intended solution to Hellish 1 from Sublems requires being able to go through it, though there might be alternative solutions that don't require it. I'm not sure. In any case, lemmings being able to survive when touching the gun or falling through them is definitely a quirk of Superlemmini, as in all the other engines they simply die. 

I think my issue is probably that I overwrote something with a file from an older SL version.
I can't get it to extract again... in the two minutes I had to try.

Do you mean the extraction simply fails or there's no pop-up asking you where to extract? If the latter, simply delete your Superlemmini directory and then double-click the .jar file and it should ask you for extraction.

[ericderkovits]

Thanks Kaywhyn , I wanted to see if I can execute it.

Yes it's really annoying. I got the replay but it's like yours, Just wanted to see if I could do it.
At least putting those blockers on those 2 builder steps from the top 2 builders were easier since their facing right.
Seem's like when going left though it's much more difficult to work.

I tried to solve it first though by using Namida's NL solution. I couldn't get it to work since he had 1 blocker put at the end of a left facing builder, which in SL
seems to have issues. But this solution is easier since that bottom builder built into an already placed blocker. The middle and top one was putting a blocker into
a right facing builder which seems to not have issues.

Kinda reminds of that one spot in Reunions "The Flameout" where I have 2 solutions, 1 where you interupt the basher with the buillder (without destoying the
terrain) before becoming a blocker.
and the 2nd solution where putting a blocker on the end of a right-fiacing builder(harder-but at least it's right facing).

Anyways no fix other than the flamethrowers. In NL's version the climbers will get burnt if they just climb on the walls. Plus if one can just use the climbers to bypass the flamethrowers it makes the level too easy.



Anyways here is my replay.

[ericderkovits]

ok here are replays for Danger 16-30.

Seems like other than fixing the flamethrowers in Danger 26, no other fixes needed.

[ericderkovits]

ok also here are replays for Mild thru Danger.

[ericderkovits]

I just noticed you forgot to remove the 100 minute timer for the changed level Psycho 6 (Lemming Crossover)

[ericderkovits]

ok here are Psycho 1-10 replays.

The level Psycho 8 (Snowed in!) I saved 33 (1 over the requirement) because the basher who bashes left instead of dying at the far left of the snow (as intended)
turns back around (to the right) because in SL the sides aren't deadly. I would shift the left some to the right so the basher will just fall off the screen.


Other than the above level no fixes needed.

Most of these 10 levels were difficult

[kaywhyn]

Just a heads up, as I had problems with this on Dos as well. Either Psycho 16 is impossible or if it is it's extremely difficult to do. Even with framestepping, I can't get it to work. It was similar to when I played the level on Dos. It was one of the two levels I couldn't do due to no directional select or assign skills while paused. In other words, I know the solution, I just can't execute it on Dos. It's impossible to tell where the basher is while it's going, though I suspect it's just due to the extremely wonky basher mechanic on SL. Anyone can feel free to prove me wrong and get a solving replay, though.

Regarding Psycho 8, once again the saying "if it's not broke, don't fix it" applies. I would just leave it, as there's nothing wrong with going over the requirement. This pack was originally for Dos, not NL, and the left edge is not deadly there as well. Again, perfectly fine for levels to play out differently, as SL IS NOT NL.

Finally, it's not surprising that the Psycho levels have proven difficult, as this rank features a big jump in difficulty compared to the previous ranks. As a matter of fact, I consider many of the earlier levels of Psycho much harder than the ones later and at the end of the rank.

[WillLem]

OK guys, slow down a bit, there's a lot to get through here!

bashing into that left steal vertical beam won't turn around the lemming (required for the solution)

As kaywhyn demonstrated in his replay, it is possible, although it does require more precision in the assignment of the Basher. I personally think it's an acceptable trade-off rather than potentially messing up the level by changing its layout or skillset, so I'm leaving this one as it is.

putting blockers on the end of builder steps while another one is building to turn him around seems to not work(especially builders building left). And to do it 4 times (2 times in each direction)
---
Also the flamethrowers need adjusting as one can just send the climbers up to either exit and they won't die from the flamethrowers (not supposed to happen)

Note that this is a left exit solution. The right exit appears to be impossible with the given skillset. With one more builder, then it will be possible.

Again, kaywhyn has demonstrated that it is possible, albeit slightly more fiddly. Also, I've personally speedrun Down, Along, Up. In That Order in SuperLemmini several times so... the trick is absolutely possible to execute several times in a row, even under pressure

It's possible to add an extra Builder to the skillset and maybe allow a couple of deaths to make it a touch more forgiving (and to the make the right exit possible to reach, as per kaywhyn's comment) if people agree that it's worth doing this. I've added a poll, and asked namida's opinion as well. NOTE: namida pointed out that the right exit is not possible to reach in NL either, so I see no reason to make it possible. Also, the added execution difficulty posed by SuperLemmini is one of the things that makes it more of a challenge to play the level, so... I voted No. I'll only change this if there's an overwhelming majority of Yes votes.

Meanwhile, I've fixed the flamethrowers because I agree with Eric here; although it's one of those "SL behaves differently" things, this is something that clearly ruins the level rather than just makes a NeoLemmix talisman impossible, or saves the odd extra lem.

I just noticed you forgot to remove the 100 minute timer for the changed level Psycho 6 (Lemming Crossover)

Thanks for the heads up, fixed.

The level Psycho 8 (Snowed in!) I saved 33 (1 over the requirement) because the basher who bashes left instead of dying at the far left of the snow (as intended) turns back around (to the right) because in SL the sides aren't deadly

Hmmm. I think I agree again with kaywhyn here; it doesn't outright break the level, and in fact is saving an extra lem who otherwise dies unnecessarily. I'll leave this one as it is.

Either Psycho 16 is impossible or if it is it's extremely difficult to do

I'm still finishing the Danger levels, you guys are way ahead of me! Since we're now making significant progress though, I'll wait until we've all finished playing through the whole pack and then release all level fixes in one update.

[kaywhyn]

As kaywhyn demonstrated in his replay, it is possible, although it does require more precision in the assignment of the Basher. I personally think it's an acceptable trade-off rather than potentially messing up the level by changing its layout or skillset, so I'm leaving this one as it is.

Alternatively, here's an easier solution for Danger 25, as I kind of hate the trick I use to save the basher.

Again, kaywhyn has demonstrated that it is possible, albeit slightly more fiddly. Also, I've personally speedrun Down, Along, Up. In That Order in SuperLemmini several times so... the trick is absolutely possible to execute several times in a row, even under pressure

It's important to note that Mayhem 5 is far easier to do just because you don't need to put blockers on the builder staircases, whereas for Danger 26 it is required

Meanwhile, I've fixed the flamethrowers because I agree with Eric here; although it's one of those "SL behaves differently" things, this is something that clearly ruins the level rather than just makes a NeoLemmix talisman impossible, or saves the odd extra lem.

Should be noted that the way I wrote my analysis I was neither in disagreement nor in agreement with fixing the flamethrowers, as I simply pointed out that in SL lemmings don't die when touching the gun of the flamethrower when they should. However, right here, it should be clear that I'm definitely in agreement of their positioning to fix climbers being able to bypass them, as I have forgotten that it will make the level too easy otherwise. Of course, if the terrain was different, such as pieces of overhang were there to prevent that from happening, then of course they won't be able to, but adjusting the flamethrowers is the easiest fix here.

I'm still finishing the Danger levels, you guys are way ahead of me! Since we're now making significant progress though, I'll wait until we've all finished playing through the whole pack and then release all level fixes in one update.

I should mention that I'm not really seriously playing the pack, as I'm still currently on my hiatus from the game. I just simply jump in and prove a level's still possible based on the comments I'm seeing saying that there are problems with a particular level. However, as I think I might be the only one among the SL users who has completed all of the pack, both on Dos (with the exception of two levels which I know the solution to but is pretty much impossible to do on Dos due to no directional select and can't assign skills while paused, which Psycho 16 is one of them, another was in the Danger rank which got replaced with a marble level, I think Danger 21, and this was from several years ago) and on New Formats NL (back at the end of last year), I can definitely vouch for this pack being one that should be in people's list of packs to play. Truly plenty of gems in here.

Other than Psycho 16 noted above, which I feel might still be possible, I don't think there are any other levels that will prove to be problematic, at least not off the top of my head I can remember any that might not be possible under SL mechanics.

Can probably also hold off on fixing levels and wait for the next SL update as well, though who knows how long it will be before the next version of SL happens

[jkapp76]

I did a fresh install of super lemmini. I installed lemmings plus and the replays.
The guy still jumps in the exit every time. No kidding.

I expected this to fix the issue. I'm out of ideas now.