Recreating levels from Lemmings 2: The Tribes for NeoLemmix

[Strato Incendus]

While trying to make my levels for my next pack, Lemmings: Hall of Fame, as true to Lemmings 2: The Tribes as possible, I sometimes start out by re-building an actual Lemmings 2: The Tribes level in NeoLemmix as closely as possible, and then modifying it from there.

However, just like WillLem has recently made an attempt to recreate original Amiga Lemmings in NeoLemmix, I thought: Why not make this another community challenge?

Which levels from Lemmings 2: The Tribes can be re-created in (and thus "ported to") NeoLemmix?

I actually love the variety of skills available in Lemmings 2, and the tilesets and music tracks as well. The main thing that really bothers me about it is the horrendous execution difficulty, be it with regards to the fan, the switching between "pause selected / fast-forward selected / fan selected / skill selected", the knockback effects of certain explosive skills, or even just the hassle of restarting the level (the Amiga version doesn't contain the option to simply press ESC, you have to nuke every time you want to restart - and I'm using the Amiga version as a .bat file for the original levels, so that I can simultaneously keep kieranmillar's levels in the folder of my DOS version of Lemmings 2).

But if there's one thing that NeoLemmix can abolish easily, it's precisely this execution difficulty!

So maybe we can increase the fun of playing L2 a little by making levels from it available for NeoLemmix. My first example is a manually recreated version of Beach level 07, "SAND IN YER SARNIES". I could easily replace the Stomper with a Digger. The Runner isn't available in NeoLemmix, but it doesn't add anything apart from increasing execution speed (we have the space bar for that ). Also, I didn't add a timelimit, because most of them don't seem to serve a purpose in L2. Everything else is as in L2.



I'm sure the options for "porting levels from L2 over to NeoLemmix" will increase drastically if we do indeed end up getting all new four skills (Laserer, Slider, Spearer, and Grenader) introduced!

[Dullstar]

It should go without saying that now that we have the L2 classic style, it should be possible to port the entire tribe perfectly without the differences between orig_pillar and L2 classic getting in the way.

I've done the first two levels. As far as terrain and object placements go, they match the original as closely as I could, even down to making sure the wood grain matches. However, the time limits are missing (because realistically they were just kinda there), and the spawn intervals are a guess. It will play a song with the filename l2_classic if one exists, although at this time you will have to provide your own.

Once I have all the levels completed, I'll probably make two releases: one that ports all the stats including the time limits, and one that removes both the time limits and the unusable bombers from the skill panel.

[Kingshadow3]

I've got one as well. This one is Shadow Level 7 "Fritbatter Frolics!".

I replaced the Scooper with the Miner and the Rock Climber with the regular climber. I decided to cut the Shimmier from the level entirely as Neolemmix's Shimmier works differently to the L2 Shimmier as L2's Shimmier also acts as a Jumper and there is no real use of it in that level. (Most of Lemmings 2's skills in levels are generally red herrings).

One major change about this level is the addition of an updraft as Lemmings 2's Splat distance is much greater than in Neolemmix (except for classic tribe).

[Strato Incendus]

Great, thanks for chiming in on this, guys!

[GigaLem]

Personally this was an Idea I wanted to suggested to the community as to recreate and mod each level from Lemmings 2 and mod the solutions to fit NeoLemmix and arrange their order based on difficulty.

[Kingshadow3]

Personally this was an Idea I wanted to suggested to the community as to recreate and mod each level from Lemmings 2 and mod the solutions to fit NeoLemmix and arrange their order based on difficulty.

I would also note that there needs to be ways to make alterations to levels to substitute for objects that don't exist in Neolemmix (Chains, Cannons, Trampolines. etc)

These are all the levels in Amiga/DOS Lemmings 2: The Tribes that have objects that cannot exist in Neolemmix:
Beach 4: Coastal Suction Function (Chain)
Cavelem 1: Audex Powder (Dinosaur Catapult)
Cavelem 3: Mortal men doomed to die (Trampolines)
Cavelem 4: A stompin' good time! (Dinosaur Catapult)
Cavelem 5: This Is The Pits ! (Chains)
Cavelem 6: Ain't No Time (Dinosaur Catapult)
Cavelem 7: Deadly Exit (Dinosaur Catapult)
Cavelem 8: Wilma! (Dinosaur Catapult)
Cavelem 10: Ah'm No Done Yet (Dinosaur Catapult)
Circus 1: LIGHTLINES.... (Cannon & Trampolines)
Circus 2: Lemmings In The Family (Trampolines)
Circus 3: We're Coming Home (Trampolines)
Circus 5: Big Top Time (Trampoline)
Circus 6: HEADACHE (Cannons & Trampolines)
Circus 8: PLAY THAT FUNKY LEMMING (Cannon & Trampolines)
Circus 9: The Carpet Capers.... (Cannon)
Circus 10: Swingz and Roundaboutz! (Cannons & Trampoline)
Highland 3: Stop your ticklin' Jock! (Trampolines)
Highland 5: DONALD WHARS YER LEMMING (Chain)
Highland 7: In memory of McAngus (Cannons & Trampoline)
Highland 8: The White Heather Club (Chain & Cannon)
Medieval 3: ALL IN A KNIGHTS WORK!! (Catapult)
Medieval 7: UNDERGROUND (Catapult)
Medieval 10: JUST JOUSTING AROUND (Catapult)
Outdoor 2: Swing/Roundabout Theory (Chain)
Polar 2: Ice Ice Lemy (Ice)
Polar 4: DANGER THIN ICE ! (Ice)
Polar 8: Snowed In ! (Cannon)
Polar 9: Its all up hill ! (Cannon)
Shadow 5: Swingadingding (Chain)
Shadow 6: The School Gate. (Cannon)
Shadow 8: Goossen's Inferno! (Cannons)
Space 8: Odyssey (Chain)
Sports 1: Ceci n'est pas une pipe. (Trampolines and Gas Pipes)
Sports 5: Blow Back.... (Trampoline, Gas Pipes and Valve)
Sports 7: The Sun Sign Selection (Chain & Trampoline)
Sports 8: Run the Risk (Trampoline)

The teleporters in Space 8 through 10 can be replicated despite Teleporters being different in Neolemmix than in Space (Neolemmix Teleporters are one way but you could stack teleporters and receivers on top of each other (Although you might have problems with lemmings teleporting back & forth for the rest of eternity.)) Polar 7: SLIPPIN & SLIDING has the skater as a skill despite not having any Ice in that level.

An example to alter levels is Beach 4: Coastal Suction Function. Look at the Genesis version of this stage compared to the Amiga/DOS version. That version replaces the chain with water to kayak or Surf through (For Neolemmix you could simply make a lemming a Swimmer and if the Laserer doesn't make it into the new build, use a Digger pickup skill to free the others). Everything else is pretty much identical. In fact, the Chain is completely omitted from the Genesis version.

[WillLem]

Since the L2 styles are available in NeoLemmix, I wonder if it's possible to extract the maps from L2 such that they can be recreated in NL (albeit without the original skillsets, in many cases).

Of course, it's possible to build the levels manually, but does anyone know if the graphical elements could be assembled automatically somehow?

If not, can we simply build all levels without worrying about skillsets to begin with, essentially to create a collection of L2 maps that can then be interpreted within NeoLemmix by whomever wishes to compile such a pack?

[Dullstar]

There's certainly no reason it wouldn't be possible.

I'll keep it in mind when I feel like coding something but idk what.

[geoo]

In L2, the levels are arranged as a grid of 16x8 tiles. The style files come with these tiles arranged into groups of more user-friendly pieces, and I assume that's what NeoLemmix is using?
While most of the time the L2 tiles are arranged to resemble these groups, I assume this is not always the case, so you'd have to work around this somehow.
Does NeoLemmix have tile groups like Lix by now? If yes, then you could just cut up these larger pieces into their 16x8 components using eraser terrain and then lay those out exactly as in the L2 maps. If not, things might get a bit tricky.

[WillLem]

Giving this a bump due to interest in recreation of L2 levels being expressed here.

Such a project would be particularly good for SLX, due to the presence of more L2-like skills, and I may consider adding the missing objects (chains, cannons, trampolines, etc) at some point in the future if this project ever gains momentum, but of course it would be great to see this in NL as well (i.e. so, even if the existing skillset and objects are never expanded upon).

Proposal: what if we assign a number of level designers a tribe each, and task them with manually recreating the levels from just that tribe? I can't remember how many levels there are in each tribe, but I'm sure it's no more than 20. There are enough talented level designers on the Forums, we might even be able to give each tribe to 2 designers so that the workload can be divided further.

I'm happy to put myself forward for Beach.

Or, does the DOS version have .lvl files similar to L1/OhNo? Could the levels be assembled from these somehow?

[kaywhyn]

I can't remember how many levels there are in each tribe, but I'm sure it's no more than 20.

L2 has 120 levels in total, with the 12 tribes having 10 levels each.

[WillLem]

L2 has 120 levels in total, with the 12 tribes having 10 levels each.

Again, happy to do the 10 beach levels. I'll probably get on them soon, it shouldn't actually be too difficult to just recreate them manually.

Once I've done that, it's very likely that others will jump on board for the remaining 110 levels

[kaywhyn]

I'm happy to put myself forward for Beach.

Again, happy to do the 10 beach levels.

Yes, I got that you happily volunteer yourself to recreate the Beach L2 levels. My post was in response to how many levels per tribe you thought there are and letting you know there's 10 levels per tribe

[WillLem]

My post was in response to how many levels per tribe you thought there are and letting you know there's 10 levels per tribe

I see. Well, that's either 20 levels (2 tribes) for 6 people to work on, or 10 levels (1 tribe) for 12 people, if my Maths serves me correctly.

I'll start with Beach and see if that generates any interest. Let's continue discussion of this project here for now, since it's more than likely that we'll be using SLX skills and features for these levels (with that said, there's no reason the levelmaps themselves couldn't be used in NL once they're complete).

[Proxima]

or 10 levels (1 tribe) for 12 people

Eleven. Classic has been done years ago and should be findable with a forum search.