[NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]

[ericderkovits]

Yes now that 12.11 stable has been released, now the level Heavy 13 (Let the bodies hit the floor) needs the fix with the zombies leaving the screen on the sloped terrain in the water as it makes the level too easy. This is the only level that is affected by the new swimmer patch. Although Loud 21 is a little more difficult to solve with the new swimmer patch but doesn't need any fix.

also good the climber-shimmier on a stack bug was fixed as now Loud 5 can no longer use the climber to solve the level.


Also now nice to hear the post-level jingles with your pack.

Also awaiting new updates with the pack to fix some backroutes you mentioned.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks for the overview, eric. Those are not the only levels, though; "Charred remains" on the Hardcore rank is also affected. It's just that nobody completely found the intended solution there.

Fortunately, the fix for "Charred remains" was easy enough - just a small piece of terrain had to be added - and curiously, that didn't even cause my old replay to break.

"I believe I can fly" may not have absolutely required a fix, however...

Loud 21

I still found it way too much of a hassle to solve it with this new behaviour, where Swimmers seem to insist on going underneath Stoners no matter what. Even when the Stoners perfectly connected with each other, at some point the Swimmers simply wouldn't get any further up.

Therefore, the saving requirement has been loosened, and while I was at it, I've also built in a way back for any Swimmers that slip by. I probably should have done that much earlier; it just never occurred to me that it would be this easy to do.

"Let the bodies hit the floor" has received a small steel piece to prevent the zombies from swimming out, as suggested.

The updated version is attached to the starting post. Please keep reporting any issues you find! My mass replay check didn't show any further breakages for my replays, but yours might.
(No new backroute fixes yet, right now I just wanted to ensure as quickly as possible that the pack remains fully playable with the newest version.)

And yay for post-level jingles FINALLY being back! These have been around since Lemmings World Tour, yet so far New Formats never had an option of playing them, unless you flat-out replaced the default ones in your root sound folder.

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, I feel enough time has passed since the release of LOA, and so now I feel is a good time for me to post my complete set of replays for the pack. The zip includes replays for levels resolved. Those who have completed the pack are free to compare their solutions to mine. Most of the solutions are simply from the time I pre-tested the pack. The only one I had to tweak was Hardcore 7, as for some very odd reason my replay didn't work. I realized that it's a repeat of Loud 4, so that's likely why. Maybe it's due to having the same ID? Yet interestingly enough, my replays worked fine for Heavy 20 and Hardcore 17, although this repeat pair was reported as "undetermined" instead of "fail" like the former repeat pair. So really, I'm confused why one repeat pair was reported as "failed" while the other "undetermined."

The levels I had to resolve are

• Soft 17
• Soft 23
• Loud 9
• Loud 15
• Loud 16
• Loud 20
• Loud 21
• Loud 29
• Heavy 1
• Heavy 12
• Hardcore 11
• Hardcore 16
• Hardcore 27
• Hardcore 28

In other words, these were the levels that changed since the pack's release that broke my replays that I did not resolve until recently. There were several others that the mass replay check marked as failed, but most of them didn't have a problem. I simply needed to rerun the replay on the levels it reported to fix.

Loud 21 was the one that broke due to the swimmer physics change and because of the way swimmers interact with stoners and the behavior being very much different now in contrast to the old behavior pre v12.11, the save requirement was adjusted and hugely relaxed to compensate.

The last ones that I resolved were Loud 9 and 15. Interestingly enough, I really struggled with the former even though I solved it very quickly in pre-testing.

Spoiler

This time, it took me a very long time to realize that the bottom right is climber-friendly and hence I could spare a builder instead of using two to get up, even though I realized this very quickly in pre-testing. Ah yea, these lapses of time and my age is definitely showing Before that, I kept being a skill short every time. I even had to check eric's video just to make sure I had the right version. Indeed, it was confirmed via the preview screen, and so nothing else was spoiled, as that was the only screen I saw. Even then, it was quite amusing I struggled with resolving the level for a very long time. The level isn't that much harder at all than the times I kept backrouting the level. Simply due to me overlooking one very tiny detail in the bottom right

For the latter, I thought the final parts of the solution was going to be quite fiddly, but it turns out it wasn't so bad.

Soft 23 also took some time, although nowhere near as much as the final two levels I resolved.

The levels I thought that became so much better as a result of being patched up are Loud 29 and Heavy 12, though the latter took me a while to resolve.

The ones I unfortunately still backrouted are Hardcore 11 and Loud 20. The latter is an extremely severe backroute, as I don't even use the pickup skills in my solution.

edit: Strato, do you by any chance have a list of LOA levels that were not part of your 2019 demo?

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks for the updated replays, kaywhyn; sorry, no idea which levels were part of the demo and which weren't, because I've deleted those folders to avoid redundancy and possible confusion with older versions of levels. But in principle, everything that came after this post in the development thread should be eligible for Level-of-the-Year nomination, in case that's the reason you're asking. Except for "Paid in full", since in the post I mentioned that I had already included it in the previous version, i.e. still in 2019.

I'm pretty sure LOA was a pack for which I shared almost every level image in the development thread, so this "list" should be fairly complete. The majority of the Heavy and Hardcore rank was made after the introduction of the Jumper, i.e. well within 2020.

[kaywhyn]

Thanks for the updated replays, kaywhyn; sorry, no idea which levels were part of the demo and which weren't, because I've deleted those folders to avoid redundancy and possible confusion with older versions of levels. But in principle, everything that came after this post in the development thread should be eligible for Level-of-the-Year nomination, in case that's the reason you're asking. Except for "Paid in full", since in the post I mentioned that I had already included it in the previous version, i.e. still in 2019.

I'm pretty sure LOA was a pack for which I shared almost every level image in the development thread, so this "list" should be fairly complete. The majority of the Heavy and Hardcore rank was made after the introduction of the Jumper, i.e. well within 2020.

You are correct about me asking in regards to the LOTY. I did check the link, and indeed the number of level images does add up to the correct number of levels finished since the previous post, so yes, it does look like indeed the levels in the images are the only ones eligible for nomination. In that case, I'll have to find some other levels then, because there was one that I wanted to nominate but it's unfortunately not eligible. It's Loud 29 - You Keep Me Hanging On. Such a shame, because I like the level so much better now that it's been properly patched. However, I do see a couple of level images from the LOA development post after the one you link to that will definitely get a nomination from me I think you'll see once nominations close in a few days

In the meantime, I plan to post my LOA solutions to my Youtube soon

[ericderkovits]

What a coincidence, I was thinking about Loud 29 for LOTY. This was my favorite level in LOA. Oh well. I just love the solution. This level I backrouted so Strato had to patch it.

[kaywhyn]

This level I backrouted so Strato had to patch it.

Actually, the backroute you used for Loud 29 was the exact same one I used back when I pre-tested the pack Strato simply decided not to fix it at the time.

[Strato Incendus]

I think it's generally a little weird that part of a pack is eligible for LOTY and another part isn't. It would make more sense in my book if all levels in a pack were considered "released" in the year the pack itself was released. That would also avoid these issues of having to "backtrack" which levels were created when.

Those first ones were levels uploaded for pre-release testing. I'd say that's a bit like counting the test levels for the experimental version with the new skills for LOTY 2020 instead of LOTY 2021, when the thing that officially allows to play those levels (the stable NeoLemmix player with the new skills or, in my case, the full level pack in 2020) will be released. Because a level obviously gets much more attention from players after its official release than during testing. And especially LOA got a lot of attention in the first weeks after its release!

I think this kind of "punishes" level designers for taking more time to create their packs, or for uploading pre-release versions of levels. If I had kept those levels for myself or only shared them with testers via private messages instead, all levels in the pack would have been considered "released in 2020".

Granted, those demo levels of LOA were eligible for LOTY 2019, so I can see how they shouldn't get two chances. I was just quite surprised to find them eligible for nomination of LOTY 2019 to begin with. The levels from the very first demo (uploaded just a few days before New Year's Eve) were actually only eligible for LOTY 2018.

In the end, I don't regret having shared some of those levels earlier, since they definitely helped creating some "hype" for this pack over the two years that it's been in development. And that hype absolutely paid off when I finally released it. Having lots of players (in reference to the size of our small community) enjoy my pack is what ultimately matters the most to me, not whether a level that several players enjoy is eligible for LOTY (because only few people got to see e.g. Loud 29 when it was first released in a demo version, and in a very backroute-able state, as kaywhyn and eric have mentioned).

Some might just argue that the popularity of a level is something the LOTY "contest" should be able to reflect. And a level can simply attract more attention, which is the necessary condition to gain popularity in the first place, after the official release of its pack than during the demo phase. So if the demo phase and the pack release are in different years (which can easily happen for larger packs that take at least 1 year to develop), that's when those levels easily slip out of the LOTY pool of candidates, despite the demo version of a level not necessarily being an accurate reflection of its eventual popularity.

[kaywhyn]

I think it's generally a little weird that part of a pack is eligible for LOTY and another part isn't. It would make more sense in my book if all levels in a pack were considered "released" in the year the pack itself was released. That would also avoid these issues of having to "backtrack" which levels were created when.

I couldn't agree more

In the end, I don't regret having shared some of those levels earlier, since they definitely helped creating some "hype" for this pack over the two years that it's been in development. And that hype absolutely paid off when I finally released it. Having lots of players (in reference to the size of our small community) enjoy my pack is what ultimately matters the most to me, not whether a level that several players enjoy is eligible for LOTY

Absolutely, the prerelease photos were definitely a great idea. Just look at my posts detailing how much I was blown away by what I was seeing The fact that LOA was in development for a few years was well worth it in the end, as I feel you released a very high-quality pack. It was an honor being one of your pre-testers, and your subsequent packs just get better and better in quality. I think I'm pretty much in agreement with you in that it matters more to me that people are enjoying my levels/pack(s) than whether they get nominated for a LOTY or some contest. Winning a contest here on the forums is the least of my worries. I simply made my first foray into level designing by entering my first contest with LDC #22 just for the fun of it and see whether I'm capable of making a Lemmings level, and at the end of the day the important thing is that I'm enjoying myself, which admittedly I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would. Even then, I honestly still prefer to solve/test other people's levels rather than make them

I'm really looking forward to your future packs that you have planned. That reminds me. I shall look at your Drugs, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (oops, I remembered wrong ) demo pack soon. Be on the lookout for feedback

[Proxima]

I think it's generally a little weird that part of a pack is eligible for LOTY and another part isn't. It would make more sense in my book if all levels in a pack were considered "released" in the year the pack itself was released.

According to the LOTY topic, that is how it works:

* To clarify here: If it was released publicly prior to 1st Janurary 2020 as part of a demo or preview, but the full pack was released during the eligible period, the level is fine (as long as it wasn't nominated for LOTY2015/2016/2017/2018/2019).

[Strato Incendus]

Ah, okay, I got a little confused when I saw that Loud 29 had been nominated. IchoTolot just confirmed to me that this is fine in a private message.

I just remember that the first batch of 30 levels I had released as a demo for LOA in late 2018 was somehow eligible for LOTY 2018 (but I think none of them were nominated), so even those would count.

Anyways, nominations seem to be through now, and I'm happy to have four levels in the race! Thanks to everyone who nominated one of them!

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, I have started a level solving commentary video series for your LOA pack Here is the link to the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJv6sspaCI22Lt1i9kLzL5RX. Enjoy!

I originally was just going to simply upload video solutions to the pack without commentary, but I later changed my mind and decided to do it with post-commentary, as I prefer these kinds of videos, and they seem to make for great entertainment, as it's always fun for others to hear other people's thoughts on the levels/pack. In short, it's essentially a video series where I show off my solutions to your pack and I share my thoughts on the levels and what my thought processes were while I was solving them. I also in a way felt an obligation to return the favor, since I was one of the pre-testers. I did a similar thing with Icho's Lemmings United pack, where I did a post-commentary video series on it, and he absolutely enjoyed it. I'm sure you'll enjoy this video series of mine as well

[ericderkovits]

Awesome, I will be watching your commentary and comparing your solutions to mine and commenting on youtube as this was a pack I really enjoyed and was able to finish.

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks a lot, kaywhyn! Looks like I have a lot to watch at the moment, between this new series of yours and Arty's reactivated Let's Play of Lemmings World Tour.

[ericderkovits]

ok, I thought it would be cool to have the pack also with the actual songs listed in the levels. So I downloaded the songs listed in the pack from Youtube(in MP3 form) and put them into a subfolder(LOA) in the music folder. Then using the editor I put the corresponding song listed in the level into the music field. But I have a 2nd pack called Lemming Open Air with actual songs(Still wanted the original pack also with the L1 tunes). Note: Very Important. Also If one does the pack on Youtube, One should use the L1 tunes one to avoid Copyright. But for your own enjoyment one can hear the actual songs also.  NL allows using MP3 format.

Now when I play the pack using my replays, I get to hear the actual songs(downloaded from Youtube).

For the most part I like all the Soft rank songs, and most of the Loud rank songs, some are ok in the Heavy rank. But don't really care for the Hardcore rank ones,

Ones I really like are:
Soft: 1,2,3,5, 8, 10, 11 (Another great one), 12, 14, 18, 20(my favorite), 22, 23, 26, 27, 28, 29,30(Like this alot)
Loud 2 (Favorite of this rank), 3, 4, 9, 10, 11, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 25, 29
Heavy: 6, 7, 10, 13(level still needs the swimmer change fix though as zombies exit water at bottom), 14, 23, 24, 25, 27, 30(probably my favorite of the rank)
Hardcore: 4, 8(It's ok), 16 (it's ok), 20(it's ok), 25(slightly ok).

The Hardcore rank songs are I guess just not the type of music I like.



UPDATE: As suggested by Strato, I think it's best to remove the links to the pack with the copyrighted music here on the forum for anybody to access.
If you wish to have it, Please PM that you wish to have it instead and I will PM you the links with the knowledge that these are only for your personal enjoyment and NOT
to be used for use other than your personal enjoyment(IE: NOT intended for using on Youtube)

Enjoy!!!