[NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]

[ericderkovits]

hi kaywhyn. Yes loud 1 is definitely not the hardest level, in fact it's quite easy. Maybe I phrased it wrong, what I should have said is getting the Loud 1 Talisman is harder solving than any other level, at least for me that is. I just wish people wouldn't even put Talisman's in their packs. I don't like them at all. But the only reason I want them is I feel that pack is missing something when their not obtained. Even Icho went back and got the Lemming World tour Groupie 40 Talisman, even when at first he said it wasn't worth the time.

And as far as updating my Youtube ones, I will still keep the older ones(if Strato updates the pack). I will just add the new Youtube video's with the updated ones. Also Since I don't play many packs
(mainly because they're too difficult for me.) I don't mind resolving the levels, Since I don't have much going on right now in lemmings. In fact, I've been also playing the Age of Empires games that
Icho says he's been playing (The Definitive version). Also Age of Empires 2 is the best of these ones.

Also I've entered my 3 levels for level contest 22, I noticed you said you were going to enter. I wonder if you still plan on entering

[kaywhyn]

hi kaywhyn. Yes loud 1 is definitely not the hardest level, in fact it's quite easy. Maybe I phrased it wrong, what I should have said is getting the Loud 1 Talisman is harder solving than any other level, at least for me that is. I just wish people wouldn't even put Talisman's in their packs. I don't like them at all. But the only reason I want them is I feel that pack is missing something when their not obtained.

Perfectly understandable. You can probably think of it this way: They're not necessary in order to solve a pack. If they were mandatory, I think too many would get frustrated and not make it to the end. Just solving the pack suffices, at least for me it does. That's why I don't bother with talismans. Plus some are just beyond my ability to get, and I don't play the game that rigorously.

And as far as updating my Youtube ones, I will still keep the older ones(if Strato updates the pack). I will just add the new Youtube video's with the updated ones. Also Since I don't play many packs
(mainly because they're too difficult for me.) I don't mind resolving the levels, Since I don't have much going on right now in lemmings.

Right, keep the vids of the unpatched levels that you currently have up. No need to take those down. Even if only a couple of levels end up changing from the time I upload solutions, I likely won't bother uploading the newly patched up ones as well.

I do have a recommendation for you, and that is you might want to change the video titles of your Lemmings Reunion ones too. They're all titled Lemmings Reunion, which isn't very descriptive and helpful. You can probably put in the rank and level number followed by the level title. Or, you can simply title it the rank name and the level number, or even just title it the level name.

In fact, I've been also playing the Age of Empires games that
Icho says he's been playing (The Definitive version). Also Age of Empires 2 is the best of these ones.

How funny. I've been playing AoE myself the last several days. It's another game that I grew up with as well. I bought it on Steam a while back, but I hadn't gotten around to playing it until now. There are some things that do bother me, such as how it's extremely difficult to see everything in the UI because everything is so small, but that's because my laptop's native display resolution is quite high. I could simply fix it by lowering it in game, but I rather keep it at my laptop's default if I can help it. Nevertheless, I absolutely love the much improved graphics in the DE version.

Also I've entered my 3 levels for level contest 22, I noticed you said you were going to enter. I wonder if you still plan on entering

Yes, I still plan to enter. I decided to take a break from Lemmings the past week due to being horribly stuck in SEB Lems, but I just got myself unstuck, so I'm going to be trying to finish up my LP of it. The break was definitely much needed. The crazy thing is that I have played nothing but Lemmings daily for the last 10 months. I can understand people getting sick of the game after about a month or so, but to have played it for 10 months straight like I did... Hopefully it won't take me too long to pick up the NL editor.

[ericderkovits]

Oh wow, I would never have come up with this way to get the Talisman for Loud 1. Thanks Armani!!!

[David]

kaywhyn, ericderkovits : thank you for your advice and encouragement !

There is only one level that I didn't complete in the Heavy rank : Heavy 17. I find it very difficult !

Then, since I don't solve the levels in order, I have successfully completed 13 levels of the Hardcore rank.

I am reassured that the Loud 1 talisman is so difficult for everybody... I will try again later, probably.

[ericderkovits]

hi David. Yes Heavy 17(The Bee was hard for me too, I put it at no 4. as being the hardest for me). And yes getting the Talisman for Loud 1 is really difficult. I finally managed to get it (different
though than Armani's(he pmd me his)).

Spoiler

To get the Talisman it comes down to fiddling with the diggers

Anyways, it's good that your about half-way through the Hardcore rank already. I actually found the Hardcore rank not as difficult as the loud or heavy ranks(-minus 2 levels: Hardcore 2 and 20 were
for me at least the hardest in the rank.)

[kaywhyn]

Way to go, David! You're very well on your way to finishing solving the whole pack. When I pretested the pack, I found the Loud rank easier than the Soft rank. Then the levels got hard again in the Heavy rank, but overall other than the odd 1 or a few levels in each rank, I honestly felt no real challenge with LOA until somewhere around the Heavy rank. Even Hardcore I felt was not very difficult at all, although I'm in agreement with eric that Hardcore 2 and 20 are the hardest of the rank. 24 was also a difficult one for me in its current version, as it was the only level I couldn't resolve before Strato released the pack. It was more due to how I couldn't get around the many problems the level presents before I finally came up with a slight tweak to my previous solution that simply substituted a couple of skills in place of the now absent fencer once again. Before the current version, both Armani and I backrouted the heck out of the level several times.

Heavy 17 is definitely a difficult level, so you're not alone there. I'm sure you can get it eventually, though. There's just a lot of precision needed. Regarding talismans, I personally don't care about obtaining them, as I generally don't play the game rigorously. I simply am content with solving the levels in any way possible, even if it's cheesy and hackish. Not to mention that most talismans are beyond my ability to get, so I usually don't bother. Think of it this way, though. It's a good thing that talismans aren't mandatory in order to solve a pack. Otherwise I think it will frustrate too many of the ones who don't care for them and possibly result in rage quits.

So, if you can't get the Loud 1 talisman, don't worry too much about it. Of course, Loud 1 is a very easy level if you know how, but here the talisman solution is more or less the same as the normal solution but is considerably much harder and definitely requires very good handling of the game with the digger mechanics. I myself don't know where to even start in getting the talisman, but as I said I don't care about it, so I'm not even going to try.

[David]

Strato Incendus : Here my replays (Heavy 16 to Hardcore 17 (with all talismans !))
I really liked most of the levels. I found Heavy 17, Heavy 27, Hardcore 2, and Hardcore 5 difficult (and great !) Otherwise, Heavy 18, Heavy 26 and Heavy 29 seemed too easy to me ! Backroutes ?


kaywhyn : Unlike you, I'm always looking to level up with the talisman, it's like a challenge for me. If I don't win the talisman, I feel like I haven't really solved the level. But if I find that the talisman is too difficult - like for Loud 1 - I prefer to drop it so as not to waste time. However, like you, I'm looking to solve the levels in any way I can (while trying to win the talisman ).

hen I pretested the pack, I found the Loud rank easier than the Soft rank. Then the levels got hard again in the Heavy rank, but overall other than the odd 1 or a few levels in each rank, I honestly felt no real challenge with LOA until somewhere around the Heavy rank.

I agree, although I found some pretty difficult levels in the top two ranks. Still, I have to admit that I've learned a lot of tricks that I didn't know in the last few weeks, so I've improved in level solving since I started the LOA pack.

Currently, I have almost finished the pack, I still have 6 levels to solve : 2 levels on which I spent a lot of time but which I can not solve (Hardcore 18 and Hardcore 24) and 4 levels that I haven't tried yet, or very few (Hardcore 20, Hardcore 22, Hardcore 25 and Hardcore 30). I don't give up !


ericderkovits : thanks for your help and explanations, but your spoiler doesn't help me much !

I find the Hardcore rank quite difficult, but it's true that most of the levels aren't that much harder than the Heavy rank. I very liked the level Hardcore 2 but I needed a lot of testing before I found the solution !

Hardcore 18 and Hardcore 24 are the two levels that are problematic for me at the moment. I spent a lot of time but couldn't find a solution ! But I keep looking... eyes wide open...

[kaywhyn]

kaywhyn : Unlike you, I'm always looking to level up with the talisman, it's like a challenge for me. If I don't win the talisman, I feel like I haven't really solved the level. But if I find that the talisman is too difficult - like for Loud 1 - I prefer to drop it so as not to waste time. However, like you, I'm looking to solve the levels in any way I can (while trying to win the talisman ).

Perfectly understandable. They can definitely be thought of as challenges, but optional. Just be thankful they aren't mandatory Of course, if you feel you must, go for them.

I agree, although I found some pretty difficult levels in the top two ranks. Still, I have to admit that I've learned a lot of tricks that I didn't know in the last few weeks, so I've improved in level solving since I started the LOA pack.

Currently, I have almost finished the pack, I still have 6 levels to solve : 2 levels on which I spent a lot of time but which I can not solve (Hardcore 18 and Hardcore 24) and 4 levels that I haven't tried yet, or very few (Hardcore 20, Hardcore 22, Hardcore 25 and Hardcore 30). I don't give up !

Nicely done! Perhaps the next time you make another post you'll be completely done with the pack.

Gronkling also said that Hardcore 24 was difficult, and I did as well, at least in its current version. Before release, Armani and I backrouted the heck out of it Not to mention it was the very last level that I couldn't resolve before release. So, unfortunately you're the part of the community that has to play the level at its peak difficulty I'm sure you'll be able to figure out both Hardcore 18 and 24, though.

The best way to get better at solving is just to play more packs. Perhaps after finishing this pack, you could always fall back and take on content a bit on the easier side if difficult packs are beyond your comfort zone. You're still more than welcome to play the difficult packs and see how far you get, but you're not under any obligation to play them if you don't want to. It's perfectly fine to stick to easier packs if those are more up your alley. 

[David]

I just passed Hardcore 18 (and Hardcore 22, not very difficult !).

For Hardcore 24, I spent a lot of time and I feel like I tried all the possibilities... So far, this is the level I have the most problem with in this pack !

When I finish this pack, I will probably start another one (but which one, I don't know ? If you have any ideas for me, kaywhyn...), and since I like challenges, I will try a pack of 'an equivalent difficulty : medium/hard. The difficulty of this pack suits me perfectly. More difficult, it would be too hard, I think ! At least for now !

[kaywhyn]

Packs that I have played that I recommend: Dovelems, Pimolems, Lemmings Reunion, Lemmings Plus 1, Mazulems, and Sublems. For the first three, I've only played the Lemmini version, but save for some levels which needed to be reworked in order to work in NL, the levels are pretty much the exact same. They're also the very first custom packs I've played. Actually, Mazulems was the first, though I played that on Dos a long time ago. I have yet to play the New Formats version. Lemmings Reunion has the same difficulty tag as LOA. All the other packs I've mentioned have a difficulty below or not that far under Reunion. Even then, there's always those recommended packs or any other pack really that you can play through in case Reunion gets too tough. I would suggest anyone play through easier packs first before taking on the harder packs, anyway.

Another pack worth taking a look at would be Icho's Neolemmix Tutorial Pack. It has a difficulty tag of beginner, but that doesn't mean the pack is a complete pushover Besides, Icho can certainly use some additional feedback to improve the pack further Clammings is another great pack as well, though that one gets very hard quite fast. 

[David]

OK, thanks ! I won't be bored. I will see...  Anyway, I've already downloaded all the packs you mentioned (except for MazuLems).


Pimolems, I did the first three ranks and some bonus levels. I had stopped playing it because I wanted to make packs with the new skills. But I will probably continue one day...

[ericderkovits]

yes heavy 26(To Hell and Back) is too backroutable. But I wanted to send a lemming to hell and back, so I went for that solution(even though I saved just 58). One doesn't even need to do it though. This level can be solved saving 60 without sending a lemming to Hell and back(perhaps there's a way to fix the level so a lemming has to go to hell and back)

[David]

yes heavy 26(To Hell and Back) is too backroutable. But I wanted to send a lemming to hell and back, so I went for that solution(even though I saved just 58). One doesn't even need to do it though. This level can be solved saving 60 without sending a lemming to Hell and back(perhaps there's a way to fix the level so a lemming has to go to hell and back)

Totally agree ! I managed to save them all without sending a single one into the hand of hell !

Heavy 18 seemed even more "backroutable" to me. I succeeded the first time, and with the talisman.

Strato Incendus may make some changes to these levels.

[Strato Incendus]

Looks like there is somebody new breezing through this pack now!

I've watched all your replays up to the end of the Loud rank. Everything I saw was either as intended, close to intended, or fine alternative solutions.

The only level that will require a minor fix is Loud 26 (I've already changed it in my level file, but it isn't implemented in the download yet; I'll post everything together in one big update).

And, just as I feared, Loud 20 seems to remain unfixable.

On the bright side, though, you're the first one who got the main trick I intended for "Viva la vida"!

[David]

Hello Strato Incendus,

Okay ! Very well ! For Loud 20, why not replace shimmiers with walkers ? The level would be much more interesting, and possible to achieve. However, I don't know what the intended solution was...


Otherwise, there are still two levels that I failed to solve : Hardcore 20 (too difficult !) and Hardcore 30 (I don't like levels that are too long !). But I'm happy, I passed Hardcore 24. I'll post my latest replays soon... Bye !