[NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records

Started by Minim, November 16, 2020, 09:25:42 AM

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Minim

Quite a few improvements picked up by the community last night and this morning. (Thanks for your contributions) I optimised a couple more levels. Also, the Gentle 1 reads "0:17.82" as the result, despite being written as "17.18". Still, I hope everything has been recorded accurately. I refreshed the zip file.

My improvements
Lunatic 21: Improved to 1:54.18 thanks to Proxima's "Crankshaft Bomber" technique (I must keep a record of these techniques sooner rather than later). Still needs optimising for crowd release rate adjustments and narrower gap between builders. Also may need to look at holding the pack with builders if the trap builder somehow becomes an issue.

Manic 31: Improved to 0:47.18 because I took the lower "Vines" route rather than the higher "Gem & Steel" route.

Zany 4: is now 1:24.06, a minor improvement to WillLem's solution, but that digger wasn't needed at the end because he had 1 lemming available to lose. :P
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Gronkling

#16
Building on namida's replay, got gentle 1 down to 17.12
Shaved some seconds off the first >1 minute level, gentle 17, time 1.13.82 [-4.30], but I'm sure there's more room for improvement.
Just over a second off gentle 19 too, time 38.18 [-1.76]

WillLem

Quote from: Minim on December 17, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
thanks to Proxima's "Crankshaft Bomber" technique (I must keep a record of these techniques sooner rather than later)

Interesting... what's the technique?

If you do keep a record of these, I'd be super interested to read it! :lemcat:

Minim

Quote from: WillLem on December 17, 2020, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Minim on December 17, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
thanks to Proxima's "Crankshaft Bomber" technique (I must keep a record of these techniques sooner rather than later)

Interesting... what's the technique?

If you do keep a record of these, I'd be super interested to read it! :lemcat:

OK then. See if I can explain somebody else's original technique well here. I realise I must also congratulate him for that too if I haven't already, so congrats, Proxima! :P

Spoiler

Basically the Spawn rate (Opposite of Release rate) is set at 17 before the first lemming comes out (or on this level, a bit higher because of lower ground before the first bomber is set), but the main part is that after 1 lemming spawns, the rate is set to 19; and then afterwards, the rate goes up by 1 for every consecutive lemming that is chosen to bomb across.
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Lix: #2  #7
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Gronkling

Gentle 20 reduced a little bit to 30.06 [-0.65]

namida

Reply to part of Minim's spoiler above
QuoteBasically the Spawn rate (Opposite of Release rate) is set at 17

For reference, this is equivalent to a release rate of 86. (To convert either SR or RR to the other, subtract it from 103.)
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Pooty

I have 4 more improvements I'd like to share.

Gentle 25 ("The Crankshaft") has been improved to 1:17.18
The Crankshaft
I noticed that at the end of Proxima's solution, he had some blockers and diggers spare before the final pillar. There is a trick that can be used using those two skills to speed through the final pillar, bearing in mind that other diggers can free blockers. It is tough to execute though because there is a chance that the blockers can turn other lemmings around instead of the intended use of stopping diggers.

Gentle 31 ("Doomsday") has been improved to 0:35.88
Quirky 08 ("A Spot of Bother") has been improved to 0:52.35
Zany 01 ("The bridge is breaking down.") has been improved to 1:03.76
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100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Gronkling

#22
Gentle 21 improved to 21.29 [-1.18s]
Gentle 22 to 24.53 [-1.71s]
I got gentle 24 to the point where I believe it's provably completely optimal, the last lemming to exit simply walks straight from the entrance to the exit, with no jumping up or falling down to slow them. time: 1:04.53 (-1.23)

WillLem

Quote from: Minim on December 17, 2020, 04:45:14 PM
the Spawn rate (Opposite of Release rate)

How is it opposite? I thought they were one and the same thing ???

Also, thanks for the explanation :lemcat:

Proxima

Quote from: WillLem on December 17, 2020, 11:31:05 PMHow is it opposite? I thought they were one and the same thing ???

They measure the same thing, but are inverted respective to each other. Spawn Interval is the number of frames between two successive lemming releases, so a high SI = slow release = low RR.

Specifically, with the revised type of RR present in new-formats, SI = 103 - RR and vice versa.

Gronkling

#25
Slight improvement to gentle 26, 52.71 (-0.64), better is definitely better here though
Another very small one for gentle 28, 1.09.29 (-0.50)
And one for gentle 30, 16.71 (-0.64)

WillLem

Quote from: Proxima on December 17, 2020, 11:45:43 PM
They measure the same thing, but are inverted respective to each other. Spawn Interval is the number of frames between two successive lemming releases, so a high SI = slow release = low RR.

Specifically, with the revised type of RR present in new-formats, SI = 103 - RR and vice versa.

Ah, of course - that makes sense! Thanks for explaining :lemcat:

So, in the example given by Minim, the RR would be
Spoiler
-17 (+ 103), then -19 (+103), then +1 for each consecutive Bomber

Minim

Plenty of improvements picked up by the community last night (Thanks once again! :thumbsup:). I also optimised some more Lunatic & Manic levels yesterday, particularly Lunatic 12, which beats the two-minute mark. I also managed to take two frames off on Gentle 22 this morning, partially due to the overuse on floaters, but have to admire the creativity of the rescue stair from the exit platform. Nice job!

Here's my full list from yesterday, apparently in reverse order...
Lunatic 29: 3:11.65
Lunatic 15: 1:17.71
Lunatic 12: 1:57.71
Lunatic 11: 1:38.65
Lunatic 10: 1:46.47
Lunatic 9: 1:26.06
Manic 11: 1:31.65
Manic 6: 0:18.24
Manic 4: 0:55.65
Manic 3: 2:31.24
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Gronkling

#28
Did you see my other gentle solutions? Only some of the seem to have been added to the chart.
I managed to improve on Pooty's really good solution to Gentle 31 by half a second, new time 35.41 (-0.47)
Major improvement to Quirky 1, new time 27.47 (-10.00)
Huge improvement to Quirky 5, new time 1.22.27 (-40.44)
Quirky 6 -> 26.59 (-5.94)
Quirky 7 -> 2.21.12 (-2.64)

WillLem

#29
Another improvement to Zany 4 LEMTRIS, with a totally different solution this time - 01:16.65 (-8 seconds) :lemcat:

Also, Zany 11 LemMing ToMato KetchUp FAcilitY in 00:27.71 8-)

And finally, Manic 30 POOR WEE CREATURES in 01:41.53. I tried various different crowd control methods for the end section and always got this same result, so I'm fairly certain this is non-improvable (by me, at least) :P