NeoLemmix V12.10.0-RC Released [Stable released]

[namida]

Changing the number of frames in their animation would be an unnecessary compatibility break; but I have slowed down the animation (by displaying each frame for longer, rather than having more of them) and used your taller lemmings (normal frame count) one.

[zanzindorf]

I'm having a look at the RC build this evening. The new menu looks amazing. Just a few things I'd suggest to improve the gfx:

Logo - I've made the Lemmings' hair bigger. This version I've made is intended as a mockup/template - zanzindorf, if you agree that the hair is a better shape now, maybe you can work your magic with the colour shading.

Card Text - The size and proportion of these is now much better, but I really don't like the font on the cards; I'd suggest Showcard Gothic instead (or, go back to the "spray painted letters" effect). I've attached a very rough mockup of the LEVEL SELECT card using the Showcard Gothic font for reference (note that I had to remove the text so the shading has gone, the image is purely to showcase the font itself in relation to the card graphic).

EDIT: As a general suggestion, it might be good if the cards and text are separate graphics, so that players can easily customise the text to their own liking, if they so wish.

I agree with the feedback on the Logo. The lemmings holding the buttons underwent several iterations, but the lemmings in the logo were never updated with the same look. I need to fix that. Their hair could definitely use an update. Same with their eyes.

I'm not sure I'm sold on Showcard Gothic though. It's a nice font, and I did consider it while exploring different fonts, but I went with Cooper ultimately because it matched the Logo font (which is supposed to be similar to the original logo), and Cooper also goes well with the blue sprite font in my opinion. The logo and the sprite font have a rounded, organic feel, and Showcard is very sharp and angular. For me, the contrast between Showcard and the other fonts is kinda jarring. I searched for something that had a hand painted or spray painted look like the original, but unfortunately, Cooper was the closest I could find. I could try painting the text up by hand from scratch to try to match the look of the original text better, but that's kinda a time consuming option, and I'm not much of a font-smith, so I'm not even sure I could pull that off.

I'll work on it over the weekend, and I'll try a draft with Showcard just so we can see how it looks.

Regarding separate graphics for text and buttons, I do have the separated menu graphics available for download in a previous post (See attachment in this post: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5158.msg86352#msg86352 in "Menu Redesign 20201017.zip"), so if users wanted empty panels without text, that's definitely a thing one could do. Adding to your suggestion, after V12.10.0 is released, it might be neat to have a "Custom Menu Art" board added to the NeoLemmix forum board, as a place where users could post custom menu designs. (Something like this might already exists? Or perhaps it could be a child board in "NeoLemmix Graphic Sets"?)

[IchoTolot]

I must say that gothic font looks way worse. It just looks off. Zanzindorf's original Cooper font looks better in comparison.

I agree with the hair though.

[namida]

On a side note, how do people feel about the menu icons? Especially:
- Save requirement
- Release rate
- Max total skills (for talisman)
- Level completed / Records

I'm open to changing any of them but especially interested in feedback on those four.

[kaywhyn]

Truthfully, I got extremely confused by what the number under the trapdoor on the level select menu meant. I would select a level, see there's 40 lemmings, but then see the number 50 under the trapdoor. That got me very confused because I'm thinking, wait a minute, is there 40 lemmings or 50 lemmings? I later figured out that the number under the trapdoor, 50, is the RR. I wonder if there's a better way to depict the RR pictorially, although I can certainly understand why lemmings coming out the trapdoor and the number represents the RR. I think this should be changed though, to avoid confusion, since inside the level the number next to the trapdoor most of the time represents the total number of lemmings in the level. Most of the time, because if there's preplaced lemmings for example, then the number next to it simply represents how many remain to come out the trapdoor. I also wonder if you got the idea from Lemmings Revolution, since the RR is shown when you cursor over the hatch.

[WillLem]

I have slowed down the animation (by displaying each frame for longer, rather than having more of them) and used your taller lemmings

I went with Cooper ultimately because it matched the Logo font

I must say that gothic font looks way worse. It just looks off. Zanzindorf's original Cooper font looks better in comparison.

Fair enough. How about trying a version with Cooper that doesn't italicise the font, then? I think it might be that, more than the font itself, which I find a bit off-putting.

Adding to your suggestion, after V12.10.0 is released, it might be neat to have a "Custom Menu Art" board added to the NeoLemmix forum board, as a place where users could post custom menu designs.

Brilliant idea!

I'm glad that people agree that the logo Lems need a bit of work. Everything else about the menu is spot on. It's looking much better now and has its own "feel", emphasising that NL is its own thing.

On a side note, how do people feel about the menu icons?

Generally good, but I think a bit of demarcation might help with the overall look of this part of the menu, i.e:

[zanzindorf]

Here's a draft I made today. I still want to do a non-italic Cooper draft, and a draft for Showcard, but for now, here's a draft that shows off a new font I found: Chicle. It doesn't have a handwritten feel like the original DOS text, but it kinda has it's own charm in a different way. Still very rounded and bubbly like cooper. I also toned down the shading on the text. Let me know what you think. I'll probably work on the other drafts for Cooper non-italic and Showcard tomorrow. (Or any other fonts anyone can suggest )

https://www.1001fonts.com/chicle-font.html

Also pictured is my rework of the logo. I redid their hair and eyes. Is this any better?

Whilst working on the logo, I noticed something about the menu in-game. I just noticed that in fullscreen mode, on a 1920x1080 screen, the menu elements aren't being rendered pixel perfect (i.e. the pixels are not stretched uniformly, meaning some pixels might render as 2x2 blocks while others render as 2x3 or 3x2 blocks). I have smooth menus turned off and the level of zoom doesn't seem to fix it.

How big of a pain would it be to ask for a "pixel perfect menu" settings for full screen mode? Or, at least, have the menu elements be scaled by x2 evenly when the render view is at 1920x1080? Right now, my guess is that the menu is being scaled by x2.123 at this resolution, which is causing the lack of pixel accuracy. Rendering the menu at x2 evenly at 1920x1080, you probably would not notice a difference at all in terms of size. However, rendering the menu at x2 evenly would make the menu much more crisp at this resolution.

Note this is probably a small issue, so keep that in mind when evaluating if it's worth fixing, depending on how hard it would be to implement a solution. Pixel accuracy does matter quite a bit to some players, but I really don't think most players would even notice, so it's not too big a deal.

The third attachment on this post is a zoom of the logo as rendered in-game with certain pixels highlighted which are being rendered as 2x3 blocks rather than 2x2 blocks like the pixels around them.

[zanzindorf]

Here's some more variations of the button text.

Example 1: Chicle
Example 2: Non-Italic Cooper
Example 3: Showcard Gothic

All three examples have had their shading tweaked from the last menu draft. Let me know which everyone prefers, and I'll finish the rest of the rank texts and post a public download

[IchoTolot]

I must say I still find the original cooper font with the old shading the best one.

[namida]

Yeah, I like the current one too.

[zanzindorf]

I must say I still find the original cooper font with the old shading the best one.

Yeah, I like the current one too.

Awesome, that makes it easy for me

If we like the current font and shading, then the logo and settings button are probably the only things updated. (I redid hair and eyes for the logo and fixed some anti-aliasing on the settings button).

[Proxima]

Agreed about the font.

On a side note, how do people feel about the menu icons? Especially:
- Save requirement
- Release rate
- Max total skills (for talisman)
- Level completed / Records

I'm open to changing any of them but especially interested in feedback on those four.

For those who don't know, the save requirement and release rate icons use the Fire hatch and exit because namida asked someone to name one of the original styles, without saying what it would be used for I think it's not a good choice because the Fire exit is quite unlike most exits, and new players might not recognise it as an exit at first. I would suggest choosing one of Pillar, Marble or Brick (not Dirt just because that I feel that one is a bit overused as "the generic exit").

I don't have a problem with the release rate icon, but I don't like the one for locked release rate; the red patch is a bit hard to recognise as a lock. The in-game lock icon has an extra pixel in the arch, making the shape a bit clearer. (Also, possibly instead of a red lock over the hatch, have a black one in parentheses after the number?)

Level completed / records: Don't like. Firstly, I have no idea what it represents; secondly, nothing indicates that it's clickable.

I would suggest, instead of an icon, simply a button with the word "Records" (maybe in the top-right), since everything else clickable on this menu is a button. When viewing records, have the button change to say "Statistics" to go back.

Also, I'm not sure why the numbers on the records screen are green. Would they be amber if the level gets updated? If so then that makes sense. Still, I suggest numbers for max saved and individual skills should be black if they don't improve on the level's save requirement / number of that skill provided. Maybe also red for 100% saved / 0 skills? Or take out the redundant "Your records" icon and display the number of lemmings available.

* * *

Finally, it bothers me that at some zoom levels (particularly 3, which is what I want to use), the default window height is slightly too small to fit a 160-tall level. To be precise, zoom 3 makes the window default to 960 x 540. Since the skillbar is 120px tall (I think?), that leaves 420 for the level and it needs 480.

Although something weird is going on, because I went into settings and changed my window to 960 x 600, but that leaves a little grey bar at the top of the level; I thought it would fit exactly.

Also, I suggest that regardless of what ends up being the default, if the user configures their window to be taller than the default then on the main menu, preview and postview screens, the background should tile rather than leaving black space.

[WillLem]

@zanzindorf

Regarding the fonts, I really like Chicle! Please can you send me a copy of those so I can use that for my version? Also, if you still have copies of the cards without text at all, that'd be swish.

Saying that, it might be worth waiting until all of the ideas have been finalised just in case any further revisions are made to the graphics themselves...

The logo looks miles better now, especially the Lemming on the right. The one on the left could still do with a bit more hair I think - the feet are huge, so the hair needs to match up.

Great work!

EDIT - which program are you using to make these graphics? How are you able to make fine adjustments when the paint is anti-aliased? I'm so used to working with solid pixels, it would take me hours to edit these!

[zanzindorf]

Regarding the fonts, I really like Chicle! Please can you send me a copy of those so I can use that for my version? Also, if you still have copies of the cards without text at all, that'd be swish.

Glad you like it Here's a link to everything: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1t8hcPGjmiq7xbMWM2gyoXntT_KIosCQS?usp=sharing

(I figured it'd be a good idea to have this in a google drive folder as we're making changes.)

There's three folders here: "Italic Cooper - Dark Shading" contains the default images, "Menu Layers" contains the individual layers of each image, and "Chicle - Light Shading" contains the chicle font buttons just for you

The font files are also included in the "Menu Layers" folder in the "Font" folder.

The one on the left could still do with a bit more hair I think - the feet are huge, so the hair needs to match up.
EDIT - which program are you using to make these graphics? How are you able to make fine adjustments when the paint is anti-aliased? I'm so used to working with solid pixels, it would take me hours to edit these!

I'll take another look at the hair. The problem I'm running into with the logo is the height. For this draft, I reduced the amount of shadow for the letters at the bottom to get more canvas real estate for more hair at the top. It might need a bit more.

I'm working in an old version of Photoshop, a version from just before they switched to the subscription model. A lot of the shading for the letters is from a series of filters, so working with letters is really fast. The lemmings are drawn from scratch with a messy combination of layer masks, soft brushes, and a little bit of anti-aliasing by hand, so they take a bit longer. Sometimes I'll use Blender to do stuff like the background.

[namida]

The problem I'm running into with the logo is the height.

There's room to adjust the positioning of menu elements if needed, if we need to squeeze slightly more logo space out.