Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[WillLem]

Both kaywhyn and ericderkovits's solutions are in fact backroutes... maybe the time limit is justified after all! The following revision breaks both replays, so hopefully this will do it. I'm generally not a fan of locked RR but, in this case, needs must.

[kaywhyn]

Wrong place, WillLem That should go in the updates topic. Your post is fine, the file is in the wrong place.

[WillLem]

Wrong place, WillLem That should go in the updates topic. Your post is fine, the file is in the wrong place.

Sorted it, thanks.

[IchoTolot]

Alright, I will be out now for a day. Expect another pack update not before either monday or late sunday evening. (European timezone )

[Armani]

Solutions for Rule2 levels

Rule2_02 Tribute to V

Spoiler

Truly an Awesome level The level is so huge so it was a little bit laggy on my old laptop. After turning off the high res mod, there was no problem anyway. It was really epic : starting with no given skill, gathering pick-ups, spliting the crowd, hunt the buttons, ,...
By the way, what does "v" in the title stands for?,

Rule2_03 6 of One, Half a Dozen of the Other

Spoiler

I managed to solve it saving some skills Nice puzzle though! Took me quite a while to figure it out.

Rule2_04 Welcome to the Twilight Zone

Spoiler

Not sure this is intended or not. I mostly used top route and save some skills

[ericderkovits]

ok, Willem I solved your version 5 of The Diving Area.

[kaywhyn]

Rule2_02 Tribute to V

Spoiler

Truly an Awesome level The level is so huge so it was a little bit laggy on my old laptop. After turning off the high res mod, there was no problem anyway. It was really epic : starting with no given skill, gathering pick-ups, spliting the crowd, hunt the buttons, ,...
By the way, what does "v" in the title stands for?,

Once again, most impressive with Icho's R2 level, Armani! You managed to save way more skills than both Icho and me (interestingly enough, the skill we both saved was the basher, although I did one better than him). However, you could had saved even more skills in the end.

Spoiler

You totally didn't have to use the walkers on the lemming in the lower right in order to bash and collect the two pickups. Instead, all you had to do was assign the glider to it without doing anything else. Thus, you could had saved even more.

So, although I pre-tested Icho's levels and he considered mine an acceptable alternative, I'm not sure if yours is too. Let's see what Icho says.

If you understand the Roman numerals system, V represents the number 5. The level title is a tribute to the final level of namida's Lemmings Plus V pack.

[IchoTolot]

Great job Armani! Glad you liked the level!

And surprise: You are closer to the intended solution than kaywhyn.

If you understand the Roman numerals system, V represents the number 5. The level title is a tribute to the final level of namida's Lemmings Plus V pack.

That's exactly the meaning behind the title.

[kaywhyn]

Resolved Armani's R1 V4 and R3 V3 levels, as well as ericderkovits' R1 V2 and WillLem's R1 V5.

@Armani I think your R1 is now intended. Nice level! For R3, probably still a backroute? I have a blocker leftover. Still, the changes you made have definitely made the level harder.

@eric how's this solution? This time, I use all skills, including the pickups. At least in my solution, getting the shimmier pickup is very pixel precise, though. Also, I must say that with the changes you made you have succeeded in giving even a level solving master like me a lot of struggles. Nice! It's not a bad thing at all. Quite the contrary. As you know, I don't mind challenging and difficult levels. The level itself is quite a great puzzle, although my opinion that it's boring due to the repetitive skill assignments and the huge length still holds. Still, this is pretty decent for a first time contest entry.

@WillLem This should be intended. Nice short and easy level

And surprise: You are closer to the intended solution than kaywhyn.

Does not surprise me one bit, considering you and Armani are much better solvers than me IMO I seem to be the undisputed backroute king though

[Crane]

Well, kaywhyn's solution is technically a backroute, but the meat and theme of the intended solution is there, so I'll let it pass.  Well done!

Spoiler

Stoning under the trapdoor, and using shimmiers, stoners, platformers and jumpers to get around the barrel

I've found a few solutions that save tools, and the solutions that are closest to my intended solution (with some twists) are behind the talismans.  Oh, and Nessy's solution!

Ultimately, Hell's Challenge is meant to look very intimidating and atmospheric, but if you just go to it, it's not all that bad, other than the rather mean red herring at the bottom!

I may release an updated version that makes some aesthetic changes though.

[Armani]

@Armani I think your R1 is now intended. Nice level! For R3, probably still a backroute? I have a blocker leftover. Still, the changes you made have definitely made the level harder.

Neolemtris is 100% intended well done!

And Marina Bay sands is not intended. Not even close
I added some steels so you cannot bash under, and now the chimney under the hatch is now high enough so the climber can't climb over.
I really should have someone to pre-tested my levels.
There will be no update until Icho turns back, but in case of you want to play fixed version of Marina Bay sands, you can download the level in update topic.

[kaywhyn]

How's this solution for your R3 V4 level, Armani? This seems intended now, since I use all the skills, but I'm usually never certain if a solution is intended. If it's not, I'm sure we're getting close at least?

I really should have someone to pre-tested my levels.

Yea, I'm probably frustrating you with all the changes you have to keep making to your contest levels And this is the very first contest where I'm playing your levels too. With the many versions you have released, it shows that I'm able to solve your levels, because I have absolutely no idea how difficult your levels can be. They're definitely challenging, but in a good way IMO. Before this, the only levels I have ever played were from Icho, namida, and strato. Well, as my first post on this topic mentions, I am more than happy to offer to pre-test contest levels from anyone who reaches out me, so keep that in mind for the future. All you have to do is ask

[Armani]

Sadly, that's still very far from intended.
It's time to bring the sledgehammer.
I added tons of steels, entropy of the level decrease a lot as a result, but I had no choice.
Thanks a lot for your patience.

And also thanks for your offer!
I will definitely have some pre-test from the next contest, and I will keep your offer in mind.

[ericderkovits]

hi, kaywhyn, I saw your version 2 replay of my level. Not exactly the path I wanted to see. but since you used all the skills and ended up taking 10 seconds longer than mine. And got 80% of the skills placed in the correct 
spot, I will keep this version. no more changes unless someone else plays it and backroutes it. also there are a couple of variants even in my solution that I would accept. But you definitely made getting the shimmier pickup harder than it was supposed to be(not so pixel precise) if you took the right path. You definitely made the level harder than it was supposed to be.

Anyways also I agree with you with the repetiveness of the skills, that is why I only picked a small number of lemmings 12 to start off. I was considering maybe just like 5 so the repetiveness wasn't there but since this was in the Mayhem rank of my Angry Lemmings, I wanted to make the level a little harder. Although I still consider the level not that difficult.

EDIT: Also note I didn't make the level actually for the contest. First and foremost, I made it for my Angry Lemmings pack. It's just since I already had the level made, I figured why not and enter it into the contest.
         But when you backrouted it the first time with my version 1 that's when I had to alter it. So by you admitting you thought it gave you a bit of struggle(maybe not big time though), I think it does belong in my
         Mayhem rank. Also I'm trying to make my Mayhem ranks a little lengthy to add to the difficultly as well as the puzzle part of it.

         Also as one can guess, this is the 2nd level of my Mayhem rank(thus called "This room is boiling") since in the original game of lemmings the 2nd level of Mayhem was called "The boiler room" so I just
         named my level close to that name, thus I just named it "This room is boiling", so as one can see it was meant for my Angry lemmings pack and Not the contest.

[Crane]

This is more food for thought for later once everyone has a bash at solving it (and willing to keep solving it!)... should I reduce the number of Jumpers in "Hell's Challenger" from 5 to 4?  Doing so will better enforce the solution I intend, but it also makes it much more precise and possibly a little unfair at one point.