Level Design Contest #21 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[IchoTolot]

All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jr5nj7n1cxccqoq/Contest_21.zip?dl=1

Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/whzkuukb663f126/Contest_21_music.zip?dl=1

Styles: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5122.0

As Dullstar's l2-classic style is quite new and likely to be used quite a bit in the future given that it's an original style. I would like to ask people to give this a "final test" - so check the trigger areas tiles etc and if something seems off to you report it to Dullstar in the dedicated topic. Rather have critical fixes now when there are just some single levels using it!
This shall not sow doubt in Dullstar's work, I just think extra testing for quite central styles is a good thing especially when it's early in the life cycle!

Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "NeoLemtris" (V6)
Crane's "Steeplechase" (V3)
Dullstar's "Alice" (V7)
IchoTolot's "I'm Loving This Circus!" (V1)
Mantha16's "Jump, Jive and Wail" (V2)
NieSch's "Step Up Your Game" (V2)
Shmolem's "Leap of Faith" (V3)
Ericderkovits' "This room is boiling" (V5)
WillLem's "HoPPiNg_mAd" (V3)


Rule 2 Levels

Armani's "Hornet Flight" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Tribute To V" (V1)
Mantha16's "6 of One, Half a Dozen of the Other" (V1)
NieSch's "Welcome to the Twilight Zone" (V3)


Rule 3 Levels

Armani's "Marina Bay Sands" (V6)
Crane's "Hell's Challenger" (V5)
IchoTolot's "Temple Of Escher" (V1)
Mantha16's "Lemception" (V1)
Nessy's "Abandoned Memory" (V1)


The R3 levels shall represent:

Spoiler

- Marina Bay Sands hotel in Singapore
- A tank (probably the british Challenger tank)
- M.C. Escher's famous stairs
- The lemmings game itself
- Megaman

Bonus

WillLem's "The Diving Area" (V5)

You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5030.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 7th of November!
Updates will close on 4th of November!

Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

[IchoTolot]

As I am busy this weekend (meetup with Simon ), I will probably post the first pack update at the beginning of next week.

In the meantime you can still get all updates in the update topic.

I will also record myself playing through the levels during the next week and then upload my solutions as usual.

[kaywhyn]

Hello everyone/contest entrants,

As you may all be aware of, I'm the one who recently solved (second player to have done so after Armani) all of Icho's United and am now just going back and resolving the remaining 6 backroute patched levels. Consequently, Icho reached out to me via PM while the submission phase was still open and asked if I was interested in backroute testing his LDC #21 levels, which I of course accepted the offer. This is the very first time I have ever pre-tested contest levels, so the fact that he personally reached out to me for that is quite an honor. I'm guessing it's due to the appreciation of helping find a lot of backroutes to the final two ranks of United, as well as just how he was amazed at my solving/backrouting abilities and perseverance and determination of not throwing in the towel. Just a heads up to you all on his 3 levels, they're great ones, and, with the exception of the second version of R1 which surprisingly gave me trouble due to me overthinking it, they're still deceivingly tough nuts to crack. Let's see if any of you can figure them out Given all of you are skilled solvers of high caliber, I know you'll be able to figure out Icho's levels By my pre-testing, only 1 update to R1 and 2 updates to R2 were needed.

With this being said, I would like to let you know that for future contests, that any of you are more than welcome to do the same and reach out to me and ask if I be interested in pre-testing your contest entries. Of course, that doesn't mean for all of you to do that, as it's best if I don't see everyone's contest entries ahead of time prior to the playing phase, especially if I decide to participate myself in the future by entering at least one level.

In regards to level designing, I know that I have said in the beginning earlier this year when I finally made myself known to the forums that I wouldn't ever get into it. What has inspired me to give it a go is due to the Bonus rank of United that I played last month and that I will definitely be participating in the LDC. However, a few days ago I decided that I'll skip out on this one due to having ran out of time and will for sure enter the next one. So, no contest entry from me this time, although let me do make this clear: Even though the submission phase has recently ended, I'm well aware that I can technically still enter up until the updates phase ends. As I have said before, I'm not going to this time, particularly since I don't have any good ideas for any of the three rules for this particular contest, but rest assured that I will definitely participate in the next LDC after this current one is done In other words, I will participate in LDC #22 as my first contest

Now that the playing phase has started, I'm looking forward and am excited to play the other 13 entries from the rest of you that I haven't seen yet and seeing if I can figure any of your levels out. This will be the very first LDC where I will be playing levels and posting replays/feedback to any contest levels I'm able to figure out and seeing if I ended up backrouting any other people's contest entries.

Happy playing/level solving and backroute hunting, everyone!     

[IchoTolot]

Just got a replay to my R3 level that managed to save 2 skills (digger and miner).

It's a level where I will accept most solutions so keep the variants coming!

Let's see if someone manages to save even more skills!

[IchoTolot]

Already, got a late submission from ericderkovits!

The level+music files of it are now included.

[kaywhyn]

@Dullstar Find my replay for your R1 level. This is quite possibly the biggest backroute I have ever seen, considering that my solution doesn't even fit the criteria for the rule: I don't use any jumpers or any skills besides the climber, miner, and builder. Possibly a big oversight on your part? I highly doubt it's the tileset, and so far I haven't encountered anything unusual with it, although I'll certainly let you know if I do.

[ericderkovits]

RE: Icho

I just noticed you put my level listed under rule 3, actually it's rule 1, although it's correct in the pack.

[Nessy]

Here are some replays for the Rule 1 levels I managed to solve in my first session!

Armani

Very nice looking level and good use of the Tetris music and theming I don't think my solution is 100% intended though as I had one cloner left over (which I used on a random lemming at the end to meet the save requirement). It still took me more or less an hour just to find this solution though!

Dullstar

Nice looking pillar level, but sadly I found a major backroute in this level. It might be similar to kaywhyn's solution posted earlier but I haven't checked it yet.

IchoTolot

Very good level and nice use of the tileset and the World Revolving music! I think that for the most part I did everything correct except the very last part of my solution on the left hand side. That part might be slightly unintended but you never know!

Shmolem

Nice and easy level. I think I might have backrouted it because I had some skills left over.

I attempted NieSch's level for a solid hour and a half and I couldn't figure it out yet. I also didn't get a chance to attempt Mantha16's level yet. I'll have to get back to you two on your levels! Finally, I tested Crane's level before the contest so I know that replay is okay but I'll include it on here anyway

[kaywhyn]

@Nessy regarding Dullstar's R1: Yup, the exact same as mine! The only difference is

Spoiler

I used another builder to turn the climber around. The rest is the exact same.

Regarding Icho's R1 rule: I pre-tested all of Icho's contest levels, and as he would agree with me: "Intended!"

Spoiler

Alternatively, you can swap the shimmier on the right side for a jumper and use a shimmier to glide over the exit, but it's more precise, since I believe the only position that will work is at the extreme edge and the glider will still glide over the exit. If you do all that, then you'll only have a shimmier left to interrupt the basher on the left side. So really, those two areas it's fine to interchange the shimmier and jumper.

Also, ericderkovits' R1 level is a late submission, so you have that level to solve as well.

[Armani]

Very nice looking level and good use of the Tetris music and theming I don't think my solution is 100% intended though as I had one cloner left over (which I used on a random lemming at the end to meet the save requirement). It still took me more or less an hour just to find this solution though!

Your solution to my level is 95% intended! (That means 5% is not intended )
Still, your solution is very closed to intended and I think you can easily find the intended solution for the fixed version because

Spoiler

You only have to adjust the position of the stacker a little bit and use leftover cloner somewhere else in clever way
You already used every other skill in correct position an d timing.

[Armani]

I couldn't wait to see what other people made for rule3, so I played rule3 levels first.


Rule3_02 Crane's Hell's Challenger

Spoiler

You really made an awesome looking tank!
I managed to solve the level with two talismans at once.
This might be a backroute since I have some leftover skills.

Rule3_03 Ichotolot's Temple Of Escher

Spoiler

Let's see if someone manages to save even more skills!

Here's the solution that save 5 skills
I really love the music. It sounds calm and mysterious, well fitting with the level.

Rule3_04 Mantha16's Lemception

Spoiler

That huge floater lemming looks really nice
And I like the fact that you put hatch under the terrains look like an exit and put exit on the terrains look like an hatch

Rule3_05 Nessy's Abandoned Memory

Spoiler

Wow, You made a really impressive huge megaman with all those square terrains.
I didn't used bottom teleporter and save some skills so I think this might be an slight backroute.

[Dullstar]

I should really probably have someone backroute test these because I never do a good job of it myself.

[IchoTolot]

Listed eric's level in the correct rule now.

@Shmolem: I saw your update, but you attached an old format level there so it's not eligible. Only new format nxlvl is permitted. If you fix your fix then I will include it in the next pack update.

Nessy's solution to my R1 is 100% intended. Good job!

I am very impressed to Armani's solution of my R3 level! Not only 5 skills saved, but perfectly one of each on top of that!

I could maybe make it a returning level in my next pack where the skillcount goes down from 10 of each to 8, to 6, to 5 and finally to 4.

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, I got to take a look at the R1 and R2 levels, and here are my replays for them. I wasn't able to solve all the R1 levels, specifically, crane's, mantha16's, and niesch's, but I was able to solve all the R2 levels. Wow, I got to say these are all nice and quite tough levels! It's not a bad thing at all if they manage to stump even me. Quite the contrary. I love a good challenge. Keep in mind that until this contest, the only levels I have ever played are from Icho, namida, and strato. Everyone else's levels I have never played, and so I don't know how tough their levels are or can be. Indeed, for my very first time playing mantha16's and niesch's levels, they're quite tough!

For Icho's levels, I was a pre-tester, and so I won't include my feedback for them.

R1 Feedback for the levels I did solve:

Armani's Neolemtris R1 V2

Ok, I must had backrouted this one as well, since I didn't use the stacker or the climber. The first version was easy, but this version is much harder.

Dullstar's Alice R1 V1

Already sent you my replay and gave you my feedback earlier. I saw Nessy's replay and his is almost the exact same severe backroute as mine.

Shmolem's Leap of Faith R1 V2

I was able to solve your first version, and I was also able to resolve your V2. Nice level, but I still didn't use the floater pickup.

ericderkovits' This room is boiling R1 V1

It's an ok level, but honestly I wasn't too fond of it due to the excessive repetitive glider, climber, and shimmier skill assignments and somewhat boring length of the level they have to go through even with the time skip. My replay doesn't quite solve it under your intended time limit for your Angry Lemmings pack, but it's an easy fix involving releasing the blocker much earlier.

Regarding crane's, mantha16's and niesch's levels, so far they're a no solve for me. NO HINTS YET, please! For crane's level, it's got to be the tightest time limit level I have ever played. It's not a bad thing, since I don't mind time limits, but it's quite frustrating because I always keep running out of time as the final two lemmings are exiting. I'm not sure how I can squeeze in a couple of extra seconds, but I'll keep trying.

For mantha16's level, yup, I agree with the others who said that you underestimate the difficulty of your levels. Both of your R1 and R2 are deceivingly tough, but I was able to solve your R2 (see feedback below). For your R1, it's still a no solve, but I'm going to keep trying. I'm probably just missing some obvious stuff that's preventing me from solving it. Also, I'm not a fan of the tileset, but thank you for not making the lemmings pitch black just like the terrain/objects!

Finally, for niesch's R1, no solve as well after having spent about a half hour or so. I'm probably just overcomplicating an otherwise tricky but not terribly difficult level. Nevertheless, I'm going to keep trying.   

Feedback for R2 Levels

Armani's Hornet Flight R2 V1

Nice short and deceivingly tough level. This managed to stump me for a good half hour. I'm not sure if you intended the shimmier as a delaying tactic and turning a lemming around in the stoner's terrain.

mantha16's 6 of One, Half a Dozen of the Other R2 V1

This one was deceivingly tough, but still a nice level. Requires a lot of thought on how to get each lemming to a different exit. This is the very first time I have played a level in this tileset, so it's definitely going to take some time for me to get used to the various objects and their appearances. I totally had no idea that the grey thing was a button to unlock the locked exit on the right side. This is the first level of yours that I've been able to solve so far.

niesch's Welcome to the Twilight Zone R2 V1

Wow, this one is extremely deceiving and quite tough. The skillset may seem very open, but in actuality is very tight. Still, nice level and so far the only level of yours that I was able to solve.

I haven't taken a look at the R3 levels yet, but I will soon! Great levels so far, everyone! Keep up the great work. It's great to finally be able to play levels from other authors/players besides Icho's, namida's, and strato's.

[Crane]

Nice backroute on Hell's Challenger.  Hopefully the fix (most of the barrel is now steel) won't break the level in some other way.