[Neolemmix] Godlems [Difficulty: Easy - Hard]

[Duuddu]

Resolved the pack. Replays attached.

These levels are Normal 2: Current. and Hard 5: The Incredible NO-LEMMING  World!.

To Normal 2 I found the intended solution.

For Hard 5: I think you want to enforce too much at the start here and there will most likely always be a more efficient way as the terrain is very open towards a lot of possibilities.  Your intended solution just uses too many skills to create the situation you aim for. I would go the "adjust the intended route"/"accept alternatives" way here as a fix would most likely lead to some quite obscure OWW constructs.

I saw your replays and you found the original solution for these levels I'll not do anything with Hard 5, i think that accept alternatives is the best solution by now, thanks

[IchoTolot]

I've been asked if I can give a bit more in depth feedback so here it goes:

Spoiler

1 01 - Easy and good start. The only thing I could criticise is maybe that it look a bit blocky and could use a few more decoration on those large bricks.
1 02 - Also a very good easy level, which also looks as if it comes straight out of the original game.
1 03 - 2 things could maybe be improved: Again a bit more decoration on the dirst side and the cross at the very left makes it a bit unclear that it actually turns the lems around. Maybe making it stand out a little more could help.
1 04 - Again, personally I would put a few more highlights in the decoration here.
1 05 - See 1 04. You make good looking levels, but they all could use a bit more detail in their decoration. Maybe a few spikes from the ceiling, a few extra pillars...etc
This is also a bit of personal preference though.

2 01 - Very nice level, but it's actually harder than it looks. I spend more time on this than a few of the "Hard" levels.
2 02 - I remember doing something similar in one of your earlier packs. Here my main point would be again that it looks kinda boring and bare.
2 03 - This one looks much better though!   Also, the solution is very nice!
2 04 - Personally I am not the biggest fan of levels where it's just the one timing thing and that's it. Again it looks quite bare.
2 05 - This was quite easy for its position. the solution is good though! Again it could use a bit more in the looks department.

3 01 - This was quite a tough nut. Although the skills kinda spoil you that up is the only direction at the start.
3 02 - The level is way easier than the last one or Normal 1. The solution is nice though.
3 03 - Again, the set-up of the level give the solution away quite easily. It's a good solution, but the only tricky thing is to get the timing on the bashers right. Again a bit more detail in the decoration could be good.
3 04 - The hardest, but also best level of the pack. I think that your "pillar" themed level look better than the rest as well.
3 05 - Yeah, your intended solution is a bit ambicious at the start and there are too many more effective alternatives. It's still a good level though. I am not the greatest fan of the random lemmings on the map though as they obscure the lem count in comparison to the save requirement. Again, decoration!

All in all, it's a very good pack though!

The thing where you could improve the most for future pack is in the looks departement I think. This is also a bit personal preference from myself as well though.
A few cases of bumps in the difficulty curve are there, but ranking after difficulty is a thing everybody struggles with as you will always judge difficulty differently than the player. I don't really mind a few bumps in the difficulty curve as well and it's definitly not a major thing here.

[Duuddu]

I've been asked if I can give a bit more in depth feedback so here it goes:

Spoiler

1 01 - Easy and good start. The only thing I could criticise is maybe that it look a bit blocky and could use a few more decoration on those large bricks.
1 02 - Also a very good easy level, which also looks as if it comes straight out of the original game.
1 03 - 2 things could maybe be improved: Again a bit more decoration on the dirst side and the cross at the very left makes it a bit unclear that it actually turns the lems around. Maybe making it stand out a little more could help.
1 04 - Again, personally I would put a few more highlights in the decoration here.
1 05 - See 1 04. You make good looking levels, but they all could use a bit more detail in their decoration. Maybe a few spikes from the ceiling, a few extra pillars...etc
This is also a bit of personal preference though.

2 01 - Very nice level, but it's actually harder than it looks. I spend more time on this than a few of the "Hard" levels.
2 02 - I remember doing something similar in one of your earlier packs. Here my main point would be again that it looks kinda boring and bare.
2 03 - This one looks much better though!   Also, the solution is very nice!
2 04 - Personally I am not the biggest fan of levels where it's just the one timing thing and that's it. Again it looks quite bare.
2 05 - This was quite easy for its position. the solution is good though! Again it could use a bit more in the looks department.

3 01 - This was quite a tough nut. Although the skills kinda spoil you that up is the only direction at the start.
3 02 - The level is way easier than the last one or Normal 1. The solution is nice though.
3 03 - Again, the set-up of the level give the solution away quite easily. It's a good solution, but the only tricky thing is to get the timing on the bashers right. Again a bit more detail in the decoration could be good.
3 04 - The hardest, but also best level of the pack. I think that your "pillar" themed level look better than the rest as well.
3 05 - Yeah, your intended solution is a bit ambicious at the start and there are too many more effective alternatives. It's still a good level though. I am not the greatest fan of the random lemmings on the map though as they obscure the lem count in comparison to the save requirement. Again, decoration!

All in all, it's a very good pack though!

The thing where you could improve the most for future pack is in the looks departement I think. This is also a bit personal preference from myself as well though.
A few cases of bumps in the difficulty curve are there, but ranking after difficulty is a thing everybody struggles with as you will always judge difficulty differently than the player. I don't really mind a few bumps in the difficulty curve as well and it's definitly not a major thing here.

Thank you by this feedback, I really consider your feedbacks in my level packs. About the decoration I've some difficulty, but I'm learning and finding inspiration in others player's lp.

[kaywhyn]

Hello Duuddu,

I've solved all of the pack. My replays are attached.

General Remarks

Wow, this pack is a step up in terms of quality and difficulty from your other two packs for Old Formats. Even though it's shorter than either pack, it's not an easy one at all. Even the Easy rank is no pushover despite the ranking name leading you to believe otherwise. While your other two packs were challenging as well, this pack is definitely your hardest thus far. It's still a great pack and definitely was a great challenge from start to finish. That reminds me, I need to post my replays for your other two packs in the appropriate level pack topic sometime.


Easy Rank Feedback

As I already mentioned, don't be fooled by the ranking name, as it's still no complete slouch/pushover. It's still easier than both the Normal and Hard ranks, just harder than usual levels and not complete walks in the park.

Spoiler

Easy 1 - LM098 PaLLace Great classic destructive digging skills only level to start off the pack. What is the level title referring to?

Easy 2 - The Military Building School Easy one. Nothing hard about this one.

Easy 3 - Everyone Say I NEED FLOATERS Probably my favorite one of the rank. A bit harder than the previous two levels, but it's still an easy one. I don't like how a climber is able to get over the well, though. In other engines, a climber can't get over it, but in NL it can, where I expected it to hit his head and fall back down and turn around. Even then, the fact that a climber can get over it is useful to isolate a worker lemming, for example.

Easy 4 - The Gate to the Hell Seems to be an open-ended level. Indeed, watching my solution I barely realized that it's quite easy to save everyone.

Easy 5 - Hotel 626 Same thing, what is the level title referring to? Despite being the final level of the rank, it's certainly not a very hard one. The fact that there's 3 entrances ramps up the difficulty considerably, especially since they're all headed for danger if they are going in the wrong direction. This is probably a close second favorite of mine in the rank.

Normal Rank Feedback

Harder levels here. Some of these took me a while to figure out and solve.

Spoiler

Normal 1 - Idiots Uses The Useless Trap Nice level to start off the Normal rank, and certainly a step up in difficulty from the Easy levels. Even then, I thought this level wasn't too hard. The only hard part is releasing the crowd at the right time so that only one lemming dies to the rope trap. Also, that final gap is super precise on the builder placement, as the only possible position is the very last frame before the worker falls into the bottomless pit.

Normal 2 - Current Nice level. The timing is super tight, though, especially since the final lemming comes at a time when the builder going to the left almost doesn't finish on time. Can also be difficult to execute.

Normal 3 - One Thousand and One First major stumping point for me. It's obvious what needs to be done for the most part, it's the execution that is difficult. The timing is also extremely tight. The stackers also need to be placed at the right place or some will slip by before the platformer to the exit is done. Still, the solution is great.

Normal 4 - Pixel Perfect The solution is very obvious, just getting the timing exactly right is very hard. I think the level might be referring to how you must block to turn the builder after he has laid down a certain number of bricks. Do it one brick late or too early and you won't be able to get up to the exit. As the level is on the lowest RR possible, RR fiddling is absolutely necessary here.

Normal 5 - Good- Lemming Circuit Nice, easy level to finish off the rank. Solution is quite obvious here. Only difficult part is figuring out that you must max out the RR after the first lemming mines so to get one lemming past the ghostbuster trap to lay down the builder near the exit.

Hard Rank Feedback

Even harder levels here. Hard 1 and Hard 4 - Godlems were the hardest for me. In particular, Hard 4 took me the longest to solve out of any level in the pack, and my solution is extremely timing heavy and super precise. I really made my life hard on this level. The result was just so much frustration from rewinding so much and the extremely long waiting game just to get the timing correct and for the solution to finally work out. I saw Icho's and Armani's solutions after solving this level and yea, as I thought there are much easier ways to do the solution. Granted, I kept giving up on this level in frustration and came back occasionally from time to time, and I finally managed to solve it today, although again very fiddly, messy, and timing heavy, along with the super long waiting game.

Spoiler

Hard 1 Have a Nice Week! This was a really hard one. I had to come back to this level from time to time, and I finally managed to solve it via the Dolly Dimple trick. Otherwise, I kept being a builder short. This definitely would had made for a very nice repeat for Have a Nice Day from the OL.

Hard 2 - WILLO PILLOW Not a hard level, just difficult to execute, particularly since the timing can be tight.

Hard 3 - Give up, bro Obviously, I didn't give up Solution is obvious, but the time limit is very strict and hence finishing on time is the hardest part. It all comes down to when to bash through the walls.

Hard 5 - The Incredible NO-LEMMING World! For the final level of the pack, this is nowhere near the hardest level of the pack. Once again, the solution is obvious, but finishing on time is the hardest part. Much easier than the previous level.

Overall, nice job with the pack, and I look forward to more packs from you in the future if you're thinking of making more levels

[Duuddu]

Hello Duuddu,

I've solved all of the pack. My replays are attached.

General Remarks

Wow, this pack is a step up in terms of quality and difficulty from your other two packs for Old Formats. Even though it's shorter than either pack, it's not an easy one at all. Even the Easy rank is no pushover despite the ranking name leading you to believe otherwise. While your other two packs were challenging as well, this pack is definitely your hardest thus far. It's still a great pack and definitely was a great challenge from start to finish. That reminds me, I need to post my replays for your other two packs in the appropriate level pack topic sometime.


Easy Rank Feedback

As I already mentioned, don't be fooled by the ranking name, as it's still no complete slouch/pushover. It's still easier than both the Normal and Hard ranks, just harder than usual levels and not complete walks in the park.

Spoiler

Easy 1 - LM098 PaLLace Great classic destructive digging skills only level to start off the pack. What is the level title referring to?

Easy 2 - The Military Building School Easy one. Nothing hard about this one.

Easy 3 - Everyone Say I NEED FLOATERS Probably my favorite one of the rank. A bit harder than the previous two levels, but it's still an easy one. I don't like how a climber is able to get over the well, though. In other engines, a climber can't get over it, but in NL it can, where I expected it to hit his head and fall back down and turn around. Even then, the fact that a climber can get over it is useful to isolate a worker lemming, for example.

Easy 4 - The Gate to the Hell Seems to be an open-ended level. Indeed, watching my solution I barely realized that it's quite easy to save everyone.

Easy 5 - Hotel 626 Same thing, what is the level title referring to? Despite being the final level of the rank, it's certainly not a very hard one. The fact that there's 3 entrances ramps up the difficulty considerably, especially since they're all headed for danger if they are going in the wrong direction. This is probably a close second favorite of mine in the rank.

Normal Rank Feedback

Harder levels here. Some of these took me a while to figure out and solve.

Spoiler

Normal 1 - Idiots Uses The Useless Trap Nice level to start off the Normal rank, and certainly a step up in difficulty from the Easy levels. Even then, I thought this level wasn't too hard. The only hard part is releasing the crowd at the right time so that only one lemming dies to the rope trap. Also, that final gap is super precise on the builder placement, as the only possible position is the very last frame before the worker falls into the bottomless pit.

Normal 2 - Current Nice level. The timing is super tight, though, especially since the final lemming comes at a time when the builder going to the left almost doesn't finish on time. Can also be difficult to execute.

Normal 3 - One Thousand and One First major stumping point for me. It's obvious what needs to be done for the most part, it's the execution that is difficult. The timing is also extremely tight. The stackers also need to be placed at the right place or some will slip by before the platformer to the exit is done. Still, the solution is great.

Normal 4 - Pixel Perfect The solution is very obvious, just getting the timing exactly right is very hard. I think the level might be referring to how you must block to turn the builder after he has laid down a certain number of bricks. Do it one brick late or too early and you won't be able to get up to the exit. As the level is on the lowest RR possible, RR fiddling is absolutely necessary here.

Normal 5 - Good- Lemming Circuit Nice, easy level to finish off the rank. Solution is quite obvious here. Only difficult part is figuring out that you must max out the RR after the first lemming mines so to get one lemming past the ghostbuster trap to lay down the builder near the exit.

Hard Rank Feedback

Even harder levels here. Hard 1 and Hard 4 - Godlems were the hardest for me. In particular, Hard 4 took me the longest to solve out of any level in the pack, and my solution is extremely timing heavy and super precise. I really made my life hard on this level. The result was just so much frustration from rewinding so much and the extremely long waiting game just to get the timing correct and for the solution to finally work out. I saw Icho's and Armani's solutions after solving this level and yea, as I thought there are much easier ways to do the solution. Granted, I kept giving up on this level in frustration and came back occasionally from time to time, and I finally managed to solve it today, although again very fiddly, messy, and timing heavy, along with the super long waiting game.

Spoiler

Hard 1 Have a Nice Week! This was a really hard one. I had to come back to this level from time to time, and I finally managed to solve it via the Dolly Dimple trick. Otherwise, I kept being a builder short. This definitely would had made for a very nice repeat for Have a Nice Day from the OL.

Hard 2 - WILLO PILLOW Not a hard level, just difficult to execute, particularly since the timing can be tight.

Hard 3 - Give up, bro Obviously, I didn't give up Solution is obvious, but the time limit is very strict and hence finishing on time is the hardest part. It all comes down to when to bash through the walls.

Hard 5 - The Incredible NO-LEMMING World! For the final level of the pack, this is nowhere near the hardest level of the pack. Once again, the solution is obvious, but finishing on time is the hardest part. Much easier than the previous level.

Overall, nice job with the pack, and I look forward to more packs from you in the future if you're thinking of making more levels

Thank you by the Feedback, I always uses it for my future LP
I've seen all your replays and you made what I think that was impossible: Win Hard 4 - Godlems, without the RR at 7 at the start. Congratulations!

And you didn't use the digger at Hard - 1 too

Overall, you used the original solution in almost all levels

About the levels names references:

LM098 PaLLace - It was my 98 I ever did on Neolemmix (since I started to save as LM001, LM002..). It was a palace decoration. I just bring it to the new Neolemmix format and use another decoration, but with the tiles exatcly up on the old tiles...

Hotel 626 - This was a browser horror game by 2008-2012, I just wanted to do a referece here

And too, I didn't put the Hard 4 - Godlems as the last level of the pack, because on the original pack the Hardest level is Mayhem 29 - Save me. But about the last level, I've tried to do a hard timer level, but I failed haha, but it enforces more the reference to the original LP, I think.

[kaywhyn]

Thank you by the Feedback, I always uses it for my future LP

Hey Duuddu, great to hear from you My pleasure on the feedback. LP = level pack. Hmm, I wonder why I never noticed this before. I've always used LP to mean Let's Play a level pack

I've seen all your replays and you made what I think that was impossible: Win Hard 4 - Godlems, without the RR at 7 at the start. Congratulations!

Yea, it's amazing how I never ever thought of a much easier way to do it, the way Armani and Icho did. Easiest way to stop the madness I did in that level is to put in a time limit. My solution does, after all, take over 20 minutes There were a couple of levels in United where Icho didn't mind the long waiting game at first, but when he saw other people doing the same waiting game in their solutions he decided to end the madness and put in a time limit. Of course, it's your choice if you want to do that for Hard 4, although in all likelihood I probably will be the only one who ever solved it in this crazy way

And too, I didn't put the Hard 4 - Godlems as the last level of the pack, because on the original pack the Hardest level is Mayhem 29 - Save me. But about the last level, I've tried to do a hard timer level, but I failed haha, but it enforces more the reference to the original LP, I think.

True, I've generally seen that the penultimate level is harder than the final level in the many packs that I've played and solved. Your pack Godlems is certainly no exception. I'll need to take a look at your first level pack again then, as I don't remember any kind of reference Hard 5 refers to. It's been a long time since I played it