Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels

[Proxima]

It's an anything-goes level, so no worries. Nice solution.

[Wibble]

Heed the Traffic Light - I liked this level - looked very difficult at first but having solved it I genuinely felt I should have spotted the method sooner.

Spoiler

Its pretty clear where the excavation skills have to be used so figuring out the timing of the blocker is the main puzzle

All Aboard the Pain Train - After practically being given a solution replay for Changing of the Guards I was expecting this to be a complete nightmare and had avoided any serious attempts at it until today, but got the idea fairly quickly.

Spoiler

The execution took several more attempts however as there are a few timing elements to the solution, many of which you can't tell the accuracy of until seeing if you won or not

. I think its in the right place difficulty wise as although I solved it a lot more easily than COTG, I used some ideas from the solution of that level (its a bit like the fact I solved Slipping Again much more quickly than Slipping).

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Lix - I don't know if this is a backroute or if

Spoiler

theclimber is a red herring - if so, nice one, it had me fooled for a while, most of my failed attempts were in trying to work out how to get the climber to help and have the miner at the right height too. Solved it on the first attempt where I decided not to use a climber but just use the last lix

.

[Simon]

Tinker Tailor

The intended solution uses all skills, including the climber. Nearly all of your ideas are the same as the intended route, only one idea is radically different.

The intended route needs good timing.

I'll leave it to the designers (Proxima, mobius) to decide if this is backroute or a nice alternate method. If it's a backroute, I don't see any easy fixes. I'd tend to leave it in, especially because the climber becomes a lovely red herring for Wibble's route.

I'm happy that there is so much solving these days, and I'm already gathering the fixes across your and Forestidia's threads.

-- Simon

[Minim]

I can't believe I haven't looked at Wibble's replay properly yet.

Some Like to Run took me a long time to figure out.

I believe this is actually a backroute. Let me tighten the spawn interval (attached) to hopefully fix it. We should probably cross-check with Minim though as I'm not sure I know all nuances of the intended solution.

It is a backroute.

Spoiler

Those three lemmings at the far end needed to be split into three paths first.

Entertaining solution though I must admit. Geoo's spawn rate fix should hopefully sort the problem out, and maybe a laser trap could be added somewhere too?

[Wibble]

So, with the remaining 6 Vicious levels I'm pretty much stuck. Some feel close to the solution, some not. 

Gr8 Escape - still not seeing how to apply any tricks with bridges to either stall several lix in 1 go (without needing an extra basher) or turn around without a wall.

Burridan's lix - 1 short on the solution for the left, not even close with the right.

100% Built - not seeing how to save a bridge on either side.

Spoiler

On the RHS I can see that 6 bridges are needed for the height leaving 1 bridge to both stall the remaining lix and unstall them, doesn't seem possible? But on the LHS I'm not seeing how to use fewer bridges either, 1 splatform, 2 to get past the sanctuary either side, leaves 1 bridge to allow all lix to get to the sanctuary after the  first pass - also seems impossible? Obviously one of those things is possible though.

Wait Why Is there a Tree? -

Spoiler

Thoughts are to try to use the diggers together with 1 implode to turn a climber round and bridge right to left, but I can't see how to do that and then be able to get across to the sanctuary? I have tried sending 3 climbers up, having 1 dig immediately, the second dig into an alcove to allow the 3rd to turn, then implode the second, but can't get the timings to work - for the second climber to dig far enough for the 3rd to turn around, the imploder then ends up too deep.

Theresa Falls Up the Stairs - 2 different unsuccessful methods attached.

Spoiler

I can't optimise the digging any more for the platforms to reach with the second method, leading me to think the first is closer to the solution. If I can just get a lix to the sanctuary area from the start without using a batter, blocker, or both jumpers then I can solve it I think.

Chasm - Most of my attempts are variants of the attached.

Spoiler

I have also tried using a climber from the right trapdoor to jump the chasm from that side, aiming to mine down to the LHS - with no success

Hints for any or all would be appreciated at this stage.

[Proxima]

Gr8 Escape

Spoiler

Imagine a level with entirely straight, orthogonal terrain (and yes, I know "The Gr8 Escape" isn't exactly that). Now complete this sentence: A builder will turn around when he hits a wall or ____

Buridan's Lix, left

Spoiler

A bridge needs to be built on the bottom level. Building left-to-right is too slow because you have to walk to the obstacle and turn around. Therefore ____

Buridan's Lix, right

Spoiler

geoo mentioned that this involves a trick from a previous level. The specific level is "The Razor's Edge".

[Simon]

Hint for 100% Built: Number of skills on both sides

The proof replay assigns only 12 of the 13 bridges: 7 on the right, 5 on the left.

-- Simon

[geoo]

All Aboard the Pain Train -- Good work! Pretty much intended. There's one element I had in mind which you didn't do and I realize it's completely unnecessary:

Spoiler

I apply the bomber later to compress the crowd a bit more. I could enforce this by making the bottom metal block a bit less tall, but I'm not sure it's worth doing.

Buridan's Lix, left

Spoiler

A bridge needs to be built on the bottom level. Building left-to-right is too slow because you have to walk to the obstacle and turn around. Therefore ____

Actually, this is not true (see one of Forestidia's replays). But maybe that's what you consider the backroute that should be fixed (see backroute thread)?

100% Built - not seeing how to save a bridge on either side.

Spoiler

On the RHS I can see that 6 bridges are needed for the height leaving 1 bridge to both stall the remaining lix and unstall them, doesn't seem possible? [...]

Spoiler

It is possible.

Spoiler

I'm not sure if my hint from the previous post was clear: You can do the level with 12 builders in total. Your LHS already looks pretty optimal to me.

Spoiler

Let me quote you: "Hopefully the solution has taught me some things I can apply to later levels - [...] for example the idea that sometimes you don't use the first lix to dig". You're already applying this to an extent, but don't just think of it as having to wait for all lixes to spawn, but consider it a boon. This level wouldn't work if you only had, say, 3 lixes coming out of the hatch.

Wait Why Is there a Tree? -

Spoiler

Thoughts are to try to use the diggers together with 1 implode to turn a climber round and bridge right to left, but I can't see how to do that and then be able to get across to the sanctuary? I have tried sending 3 climbers up, having 1 dig immediately, the second dig into an alcove to allow the 3rd to turn, then implode the second, but can't get the timings to work - for the second climber to dig far enough for the 3rd to turn around, the imploder then ends up too deep.

Spoiler

the imploder then ends up too deep

Right, you need to change the position where you implode the digger so the crowd can get to the sanctuary. You can't apply the imploder higher up, lower down doesn't help you, so...

Spoiler

...how about adjusting the x-position?

Theresa Falls Up the Stairs - 2 different unsuccessful methods attached.

Spoiler

I can't optimise the digging any more for the platforms to reach with the second method, leading me to think the first is closer to the solution. If I can just get a lix to the sanctuary area from the start without using a batter, blocker, or both jumpers then I can solve it I think.

This one is tricky, a lot of things to try.

Spoiler

In one of your attempts you use the blocker to turn the crowd. In the other you use it to get a lix up top. Why not both?

Spoiler

In case you're struggling to realize the previous hint, let's dig our your quote again: Let me quote you: "Hopefully the solution has taught me some things I can apply to later levels - [...] for example the idea that sometimes you don't use the first lix to dig"

Spoiler

Of course, using a blocker to turn the crowd leaves you to solve the issue how to turn the stragglers around. This is quite elegant and non-obvious.

Spoiler

Maybe "turn around" isn't quite the right term...

Spoiler

Look closely at the leftover skills.

Chasm - Most of my attempts are variants of the attached.

Spoiler

I have also tried using a climber from the right trapdoor to jump the chasm from that side, aiming to mine down to the LHS - with no success

Spoiler

I should be impossible to get a single lix from the left to the right.

Spoiler

Where exactly did your approach (in spoilers) get stuck? It seems like a good start to me.

[Wibble]

Thanks for all hints given, I have looked at 3 of the levels I was stuck on and solved 2.5 of them now.

Burridan's Lix (LHS) - OK, should have saw that way sooner than I did!

Spoiler

Nice idea pre building the bridge from below!

For the RHS, have read Proxima's hints, I did suspect it would be something to do with the level mentioned there, still working on how though.

Wait Why Is There a Tree? - I had most of the idea already, just missed

Spoiler

the fact that I don't need them to be able to climb up the crater if its made over there

Theresa Falls Up the Stairs - Got this one off the first hint. Liked this level a lot, any level that uses a variety of skills, particularly the non basic lemmings ones, is one that appeals. The trap adds a nice bit of scenery even if it is generally cosmetic in function.

[Wibble]

The Gr8 Escape - To answer Proxima's question

Spoiler

I can think of 3 things; ceiling, blocker, or bridge (going the opposite way). Obviously it can't be the blocker. My thoughts are its the underside of the white balls? But then I'd need bridges to shore up the gap for the rest of the lix, probably at least 3 more? Which I don't have. Can't see anywhere else it can apply though.

Chasm - to answer the question in the hints, see the replay.

Spoiler

With no more climbers I can't even use boxes to help.

[geoo]

Chasm

You can make the climber reach the other side. Remember "Endeavor"?

The Gr8 Escape

I can think of 3 things; ceiling, blocker, or bridge (going the opposite way).

The physics are a bit more subtle than this. It's not really a matter of "ceiling" or "wall", but rather of hit your head or hit your feet.

Spoiler

In particular hitting your head you can do at various angles.

[Wibble]

Burridan's Lix RHS now solved. Weirdly I thought I'd tried that method earlier, clearly I hadn't!

Chasm -

Spoiler

being told it is possible to go from right to left, I have now seen how to do this, it does however require an exploder as far as I can see, in order to avoid having to use the parachute too early. Now to think out how to do the rest.

[Forestidia86]

Concerning Gr8 Escape

Hint a

What is the most pressing problem in the level and how can a turned builder help you against that?

Hint b

Does in this context anything look suspicious to you concerning the level design?

Hint c

Maybe the non builder lix can be kept away from danger.

[Wibble]

Gr8 Escape -

Spoiler

The most pressing problem - depends if its about holding all lix in position or not, and whether I bridge up to a level where I can bash through in 1 to get to the outside, or use 2 bashers instead.

If it's about holding all lix in place, and bridging up first,  its a lack of bashers to release again plus no terrain to work with at all to turn the bridge. 

If it's about holding all lix in place and bashing twice lower down then I can see how to turn the bridger against the white circle, but releasing the held lix takes the 3rd basher leaving none to release the top part.   

[Forestidia86]

Gr8 Escape

Hint d

Maybe the non builder lix can be guided away from danger and...

Hint e

...at the same time the builder can build in the direction you need.