conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 02:24:21 AM

ok
Level 16 (rank 3) Green Hill Zone only difference in Lemmini's version from neolemmix is Icho put a small white pole on top of the Big Sega A(backroute fix),
so I put that in Superlemmini's (I solved so have replay).

Level 19 (rank 3) To Hell and Back only difference is the diagonal steps near left exit have left facing one-way walls which will now be in Superlemmini's version (backroute fix)

Level 21 (rank 3) Field Trip he mentioned in youtube he added the one-way walls and steel plates(one-way walls are already there) but the 5 small steel plates weren't so I put in Superlemmini's version. There above 2 darts near left block of 2 sets of OWW's (sports tile set) (backroutes fixes).Also added 3 square steel plates at left of ones there already near top hatch. and I noticed 1 small one at end rightmost part where lemmings start. There are 2 bouncing ball traps above horizontal dart near leftmost OWW. So I added those.

issues: had to adjust certain spots of terrain to get this level to work as climber 2nd climber wouldn't work properly. Extended vertically terrain in 1 spot and had to adjust a couple spots of slanted slopes so climber wouldn't climb over. and one spot of slanted slope had to adjust so a basher would bash through.
This level was the problem child with issues in this rank.

Level 23 (rank 3) Sternenhimmel (which is the german word for sky full of stars) awesome a german title, and ZimtSterne (cinnimon stars) are german holiday christmas cookies which I still have some in my house I bought on amazon.com (not fond of them though). But this level is horrible to solve it requires absolute razor thin and I mean razor thin accuracy at the start of the level. I think it should be removed. especially in Lemmini and Superlemmini, maybe not neolemmix but here yes. this level isn't even a puzzle. it's just trying to get the first part right. too bad a german one turns out to be like this.

Level 25 (rank 3) Metropolis. I added another miner as the 1st climber when trying to bash that diagonal spot in icho's solution doesn't work in Superlemmini. so the miner will help him start then can bash. slope isn't steep enough for the basher.

Level 26 (rank 3) Evolve. Nothing too much here. probably the easiest level to execute in entire 3rd rank. did it 1st try. only 4 lemmings too. Just that this level is lengthy, otherwise, easy.

Level 27 (rank 3) Whispers and Lights. had to move hatch up so 1st two floaters can be slowed so first few lemmings were closely together so only 2 lemmings that go through the traps get squashed and 2 go through. of course this level had to start of at 99. put 1st 2 as floaters and as soon as 3rd lemming out of hatch lowered release rate back to min while paused of course. this one i had to use forward frame stepping slowly by just hitting left mouse button.1 frame at a time. but at least this one works. just had to get the timing. otherwise easy level.

added small left facing OWW on 2nd gate (backroute fix according to icho on youtube) and added 2 tiny slopes near right wall (acting as a blockade) so when bombing the first climber, 2nd lemming that made it through traps can hit wall before climbing turning left hitting 2 slopes then come back right to climb. I know this was added so 2 closing tight lemmings will have enough room so 1st one can bomb with 2nd one being able to build left on hole that 1st one made. (watch icho's youtube on this level to see what I mean).

Level 28 (rank 3) Dirty Work this level is difficult only because of the Multitasking. Using pause almost the whole level since there is so much going on. but after several attempts I got the replay. Not particular difficult in precision or even timing as long as you are prepared to pause alot to do multitasking skills through the level. As long as you pause all the time, level will not be that difficult to do. and there are no issues with the level either.

Level 29 (rank 3) Controlled Release had to expand level by 50 pixels so basher will exit screen and die. also the terrain there, the basher kept stop bashing because the terrain had some spaces, so made terrain solid. That basher is supposed to die as the save % is 20/30. I kept getting 21/30.
As far as solving the level. Not extremly difficult just had to make sure the blockers are far enough apart so that the builder will have enough time to build at least over the lower parts of gaps.

Level 30 (rank 3) only issue in this level was the traps had to be adjusted(especially the 3 not so visible ones to make sure they worked). I had to of course add the ,1 to epic styles for them.
As far as solving the level. of the first 3 rank finishers, this one was by far the easiest to work. Not really any problems. as long as you follow icho's solution this one is easy.

on to rank 4 (ultra-violence).

Notes for rank 4 (ultra-violence)

Level 1 Empyrean. according to Icho's youtube neolemmix version he added 2 blocks of left OWW above pole left of exit. also 1 block of steel left of exit on
same block of terrain
also Icho added a zapper on bottom floor near entrance on bottom floor right of the little "X"(probably a backroute fix) thus
changing save % from 39 to 38 out of 40 as the digger at beginning gets zapped as well as the bomber used above pole where added
OWW were added.
Issues: None
Level 2 As above so below. Really an easy level. took only 3 tries and thats only because I forgot to mine left low enough where digger goes down digging.
Issues: None

Level 3 Deadly Heights. Not Too Hard of a Level to Execute following correct solution.
Issues: had to slightly adjust traps where the builders build because they kept getting destroyed. I think in Superlemmini these traps have a bigger
Kill zone than Lemmini's

Level 4 Knights of the Round Table
Now this belongs in this rank. very tight time limit here. finished level with only 6 seconds left.
solving the level was tricky in the mining spots. the miners had to be in correct spots.also had to send the correct climbers from both sides.
the 4 on the left had to be 1st 2 climbers skip 1 then next 2 climb.(had to give enough time for first climber to mine when getting on 1st block.)
right side was 1st 2 climb(1st one to float and build to exit) 2nd one to mine far enough back to give builder enough time to build toward exit.
3rd climber on right side was 6th lemming(again had to give time for 2nd climber on right to mine so 3rd climber on right can turn around to mine
left) This level was a multi-tasking level too.
Issues:none

level 5 Sharing the World This level was not too difficult just had to get timing right of exploder from 1st climber and correct placement of builder on top
right so he leave a tiny space so other can land on 2nd climber on lefts tiny builder step through exploders pole.
Issues: none

Level 6 Tryhardlon This level is real different then neolemmix's version but I decided to keep the Lemmini version as Icho mentioned something about
changing the level for neolemmix because he thought the releasing of a blocker with the digger wasn't possible at first in neolemmix.
Also he thought it might be too precise in neolemmix.
As far as solving the level the only tricky part was the builder building toward the exit had to extend his builds in order to reach
platform.
The only thing I changed for Superlemmini's version was adding the OWW on the pole on bottom level below entrance. the other steel
I didn't add because the trick was using the diggers in 2 spots to release 2 different blockers and the steel would prevent the digger
action.
Issues: I exchanged a miner for a basher so (-1 miner +1 basher) because the miner when mining through OWW pole would turn around in
Superlemmini but not in Lemmini. so I used a basher there instead of the miner thus exchanging of the miner, basher.

Level 7 Choose a Side... Easy level. Quick one here. Just follow Icho's solution. Nothing else to say here. only thing different I did was mine the blocker before the basher so the top right lemmings landed on entire bridge before the basher got there.
Issues: none except I think should be in 1st rank.

Level 8 Ten Friends. A little tricky but still not that hard of a level. The trickiest part was mining inbetween those 2 steel blocks before the exit without
hitting steel.
Issues: None

Level 9 Specialists. This part with the blocker digger basher part on left part of screen was very tricky. took me many times to get it. the trick was to block
the 1st lemming then when the next lemming got into pit dig him when facing right releasing the blocker and immediatly bash the digger then both lemmings and all the others (floaters of course) will turn right. otherwise the rest wasn't too hard.
Issues: None

Level 10 Engage! Oh my Gosh, now that is hard. but got it. only had 22 sec remaining. the first few things to do were easy but almost immediatly, the release rate had to be put to 99. also that builder to provide a splat platform had to be placed exactly for the lemmings to land on last brick otherwise splat. and all the remaining lemmings barely make it to turn around from bashers spot at far left of level. other parts were not that hard but that level
definitely belongs in this rank. compared to some of the previous ones not really but this one definitely.
Issues:None

Level 11 It's closing time at the mall
ok a breather level not much to this level after the previous one. only tricky part was making sure the 2 lemmings going toward exit are not too
far apart and that the digger leaves more than 1 pixel above his dig (so 2nd climber won't climb over) so 2nd one can turn around and climb
digger pit back toward other lemmings to mine them home.
Issues: None

Level 12 The Bubble Cave
Not much to this level either. I can't even say what part was tricky as I don't think any part was. A short level too. Are we sure we are in Rank 4
Ultra-Violence(although I shouldn't open my mouth). Outside of levels 4 and 10 so far all these ones in this rank have been rather easy.
Issues:None. Just made sure to test all the suckers that they work, and they do.

Level 13 Electric Prison
again not much to this level as well. easy to execute. perhaps the only thing tricky is making sure to up release rates so remaining lemming don't
splat in digger pits.
Issues:None

Level 14 Neuschwanstein (Castle in southern germany, which disney used for the castle in the disney parks)
This level is very tricky, especially Lemmini's version which is different than neolemmix as he uses here the releasing of a blocker with digger(facing left toward lemmings) then immediate builder. Unlike the neolemmix one which is easier because he doesn't use this trick. Icho just adds a builder to turn one around (much easier). I decided to keep the Lemmini one (harder) also this is the 4th rank. I think in neolemmix's version as in Level 6 tryhardlon he mentioned he didn't think the trick would work, so it's easier in neolemmix's. and the reason for this trick here in Lemmini is because he had 1 less builder to use, so one had to do this trick to spare a builder. also when the builder lemming that goes towards others lemmings return with first lemming, he barely makes it onto 1st builders platform(also he had to extend the builds for the 2nd lemming to make it-very tricky). And then to finish level, the lemming who digs near exit(facing left) gets near left facing OWW's he builds a little way back but not too far as when he hits the OWW's he needs to bash low enough so left digger from digging on pole and being released by a blocker is just barely lower so lemmings can get over from left side of OWW's. also the left lemming barely finishes build into OWW's when right one lands on brick. very tricky. and the left digger has to be released at the exact moment for him to beat the right one. also just enough down when released by a blocker that the height needed is to keep remaining lemmings from splatting. Also this level I finished with only 19sec left.
Icho loves making his german titled ones difficult for some reason just like Sternenhimmel and I found Maschendrahtzaun, kinda hard too although only the 2nd rank.
Issues:None other than being hard

Level 15 Night of Nights.
I just love watching the solution of this level. probably one of my favorites once you solve it. a beauty.
but that ending part was so tricky. had to build last build spot on tiny edge to steel then after he turns around dig in such a spot that after he digs
far enough down to provide a splat ledge he gets blocked to be released from digging and then climbs back up and had to use frame skipping once
on top mine diagonally down left till he reaches last lone lemming. and the bridge at that spot has to be just left of the edge so that lone lemming
can get up on to miners opening. very tricky. other tricky part was at very beginning. one had to mine down right so it goes just on top of bridge
steps and continues bashing diagonally down the horizontally thru small poles and of course a 2nd climber comes to the spot just after 1st basher
finishes. the middle building part was easy. just the first and last parts were tricky.
Again watching this in action is a beauty of a level.
Issues:none

Level 16 The Three Seals of Memphis
This level is kinda dull 4 lemmings only 1 to be saved basically its just making sure to get the 3 small seals blown up with 3 of the lemmings
using a few skills to get them to each one. Nothing particular hard or interesting about this level.
Issues:None

Level 17 Generation Gap
This level was a moderate multitasking level. a few spots can be tricky if your not paying attention. had to restart several times because I forgot
to do a particular thing. But if you pause and see whats happening in level and take your time and follow the correct solution, the level is not that
difficult.
I noticed for some reason they gave you 12 builders(I think it was supposed to be 11 like neolemmix's) because the save % is 90/100 but by
having that 12th builder I got 91. maybe Icho put the wrong number of builders by mistake.
Issues:None

Level 18 Comming Through!
This level was rather easy as long as one follows icho's solution. the only thing to make sure is the 3 diggers going up to top right dirt is that the first climber is climbed but then don't send the next 2 as climbers until they make one trip to dirt turn around hit blocker then you can send the next 2.
the 1st climber needs a little time to dig so next 2 climbers dont go past digger.
Issues: None

Level 19 A.M.
this one only had 5 lemmings each comming out of 5 different hatches. a multitask but not too hard. just pause again so you don't
miss using a skill on a lemming.
Issues: had to add a small piece of terrain near leftmost hatch by that "T" because the lemmings couldn't get over that spot shown in
Icho's Youtube video. They kept turning around and stayed in that area.

Level 20 Lems go Cliffjumping
This level is the hardest level so far. This level belongs near the end of Nightmare. And this level is bad design. Needs to be fixed.
solving this level is not only extremely difficult, but requires extreme precision. Level must be done while pausing and using framestepping.
I can't even image doing this level in Regular Lemmini without framestepping. Also Multi-tasking to the extreme.
As far as solving the level, this one is too hard to even explain. The only thing I can say is the diggers at top have to be placed at exact spots
otherwise level fails. This level even when you know the solution and try to execute it even with pausing and framestepping is extremely difficult.
Issues: had to adjust OWW's. In editor had to move left ones left a few pixels and the right ones right a few because the bashers wouldn't bash
thru far enough when hitting the other OWW.
Also level is bad design.

Level 21 Rescue Team
This level wasn't too hard. It's just I spent more time editing this level as the OWW kept giving me fits because the bashers weren't bashing far
enough finally I got it to work. Just doesn't look the greatest. but it least they function. I think Superlemmini ones must work different than
Lemmini's. whenever there are OWW meeting but in different directions they seem to not work as intended, so editing them is more of a problem
Anyways as far as solving, for me the only part that was tricky was making sure the 2 climbers are not too close together so the 1st climber has
enough space to bomb for the 2nd climber up on left wall below left hatch. Just make sure to float the one that's going to be with the 1st climber.
This will make it so there will be time.
Issues: Again the issues are editing the opposite facing OWW's. This was the issue for making the bashers work right there. I spent too much time
getting this to work. but I finally made it work, just not the greatest looking.

Level 22 The Face of Evil
This Level is pretty easy using Icho's solution mainly because there are only 3 lemmings. Nice Puzzle. Now this is a level that should be a level
that could be a level up for votes as a level of the year(maybe it was, don't know). Awesome looking face too(although it's supposed to be evil i
guess)
Issues: had to expand level both vertically and horizontally (vert by 8 pixels-because climber lemming when climbing at beginning fell back
down) and (horiz by 50 pixels because lemmings would turn around right before exit).

Level 23 Eaten!
When Icho said in his Youtube channel this would be one of the easier levels in the rank. He sure wasn't kidding. Not only easy but quick.
No explanation needed here how to solve. This definitely is out of rank. should be in 1st rank.
Issues: None

Level 24 Heroes Of Lemkind
Icho said this was the Level of the Year for 2015. (In neolemmix can see it since in neolemmix it has unlimited time, but in Lemmini,
Superlemmini no). I would vote for it being a great level if Lemmini's version if it had 1 more minute because it is a good puzzle, but since here
in Lemmini it's a time cruncher that alone makes it not worthy. I finished level with 10 sec. and barely blew up last bomber before lemming
arrived. I couldn't really afford to release the lemmings with the miner much later as I would have run out of time. But as far as the puzzle
part of it, it wasn't too bad. The hardest parts were getting the lemmings to build on the chains at precise spots. Had to use forward
framestepping and pause. The only other hard part was trying to get the miner to release the lemmings. I had to do many times there because
it's so crowded. it seemed I always had the miner mine left instead of right onto builder steps. in neolemmix would be easier because of the skill
shadows.
Issues: None

Level 25 No Blocker Zone
This level wasn't too bad. I think the 1st part was harder than lining up the miner to mine through steps. that part just took a little practice to find
where to mine and how far down the digger needs to dig at first block. The 1st part was trickier for me, Trying to find the right height and time to
up the release rate so no lemmings splat. other than that this level was short.
Issues: None

Level 26 The Worship of the Pickaxe
This level was difficult because of the multi-tasking(although if you take your time using framestepping and pause it's not so bad).
what makes this level the hardest is the precise placement of the miners. If your off even a little bit either the miner won't get to the lemming in
the spot needed for the lemmings to get over the block where mined or the miner will mine past where he won't stop(ie down into the floor and
die especially the one going down left by rightmost squasher(miner must be almost right before edge of squasher or he will continue mining to
bottom floor without stopping. otherwise not so bad.
Issues:None

Level 27 Please Remember Us
This level is not so bad as long as you follow Icho's youtube solution. Just make sure to change the release rates at appropriates times to have the
proper lemmings turning left (6 from hatch turning left plus the basher so 7) and to make sure to bash left column with appropriate lemming.
I think those 2 things are the only 2 tricky parts. Also I like this level too.
Issues: added the right-facing OWW's on house just below hatch shown in Icho's Youtube video. No other Issues.

Level 28 Tomb of Ramses III
This is a Repeat Level Map of I'm Too Young Too Die Level 26 Tomb of Ramses II. But this one only has 8 lemmings but fewer skills to work
with. I don't think this one is extremely difficult either. Probably the trickiest part is mining down left through builders steps in the right spot so
the miner doesn't mine through floor. that part is precise. other than that the rest of the level is rather easy.
Issues: None

Level 29 Lemming Boxes
I just love this level. One of my favorites to watch the replay. not too hard to solve as long as you follow Icho's solution. Just use pause and
forward framestepping. the trickiest parts are to just make sure the all but 2 of the diggers on digging on edges of small poles so they can be
released by a blocker. if you dig just right on pole they'e will just turn into a blocker. other than that not hard to execute. kinda a time cruncher
but still finished with 29sec so not much of one as long as you follow correct solution.
Issues: None

Level 30 Only Nightmares Ahead
Ok, final level of rank. This one gave me the most trouble because first Lemmini's version is harder than neolemmix's. Here they give you one less
miner. so I was trying to get the blocker at start released by a digger instead. This was giving me fits. finally got it though. and the only other part
that was difficult was getting the builder lined up after digger built to right so miner can mine down to lower level near start. finally I solved it.
It's the precision of this part that makes the level difficullt and of course getting the blocker released by a digger. Neolemmix definitly easier. also
the mining onto the builders bridges is easier in neolemmix because of the skill shadows.
Issues: None other than being the hardest final rank so far. Although I know Nightmares will probably be harder.

Ok On to rank 5 (Nightmare) , final rank of pack

I think I will use this post to update level comments. so if there are further comments about levels just look for this post.

kaywhyn · July 29, 2020, 02:50:51 AM

Ok, sounds good

edit with a tip for Hurt Me Plenty 21: Try adjusting the timing of when you assign the floaters. For example, instead of both near when they hit the ground, try when one is almost near the ground while the other one maybe before he falls off the starting platform. Also it might not be necessary, but you can also try adjusting the position of the first basher. That should help turn the second climber around.

edit 2: My bad. I realized that I could simply edit this post, not make a new one. I removed it and copied and pasted what I wrote to here. Weird. Also, I said to adjust when you assign the floaters, not the climbers. If you can't get it to work, perhaps I can take a look and try it myself if you're willing to send me the level file.

edit 3: Confirmed that it's possible for a climber to turn around in a basher tunnel in Superlemmini. I tested this on a Sublems level. Thus, you'll need to play around some more with the floater assignments. Like try assigning at some point while they're falling. All rightie, send it my way. In return, I'll give you a successful replay if I get it to work.

edit 4: Ok, sounds good. I'll be more than happy to help out, although my contributions will mostly be limited to solving the levels. I'll leave the level editing to you since it's your project, but on the level solving end I'll be glad to help out there wherever possible if you're not able to solve it yourself.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 06:28:43 AM

yes i've done that because that is what Icho's video shows. both climbers are timed right. its just when he hits the bashers terrain he wont turn around.
I've tried adjusting terrain. nothing seems to work. I think it's the Superlemmini engine. also no matter where i bash the 2nd one either keeps wanting to climb up but fails or if I adjust the basher he will just climb over.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 06:38:08 AM

yes i've done that with the floaters. 1st one right before he hits bottom and 2nd one right after he starts fall. when I said climbers are timed right I meant there in correct position after the floaters timing.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 06:42:37 AM

if you want i can give you my whole level 21 along with all of Icho's styles required. music not an issue. just make sure to make a backup of your original styles folder or it will mess up your other packs. also if you want i can give you my 1.43f-c which has all the styles already so you can use that editor to fix it.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 06:57:27 AM

actually i've .rar the whole reunion pack, icho's styles, and 1.43 i can upload this may have to do 3 post at least 2 since it will go over the 32.7mb. and if your willing may help me out to finish the pack but i'll leave that up to you.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 07:34:06 AM

ok look in your personal messages. i pm you those(icho's styles, reunion pack and 1.43 with icho's styles in it). also original 21 since mine i've been playing with.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 07:57:56 AM

also there are other issues with this level. climber will climb over ledge left of fall point. also he doesn't want to bash a diagonal slope.

kaywhyn · July 29, 2020, 08:03:23 AM

Ok yea, you're right, I can't get the second climber to turn around either. I also tested this on an ONML level, and indeed same thing happens when there's one pixel of ceiling above. A climber should not be able to climb through it. In this case, yea I think providing an extra miner is the best way to go about it. Alternatively, an extra basher can also do. Or, you can simply keep the Lemmini version and get rid of one floater and all but two of the diggers. Or, you can simply expand the terrain vertically so that when the basher bashes there'll be more ceiling above and then the climber will turn around properly.

Nevertheless, you gave me something to report to Tsyu about. I'll post the replay and ask him if this climber behavior was intended or not. Thanks for catching this. Of course, I'll credit you since you are the one who caught this first.

edit: All rightie, I have reported the behavior to Tsyu. Let's see what he says.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 08:14:53 AM

also in other levels where you have 3 builders building a blockade the climber will still climb over the 3. I had to do a adjustment on 1st rank's final level also another level i cant remember now (i know it was a shadow one) he does the same thing. had to do an adjustment.

kaywhyn · July 29, 2020, 08:43:03 AM

I can confirm a climber still goes over the builder wall, but an adjustment shouldn't be necessary for the rank 1 finisher. See attached replay. Not sure why the steel isn't working, but if you position the builder and the miner correctly so that the miner goes through the builder bricks, you can get the miner to mine into the steel and turn around, and thus no need for any other adjustments.

edit: Also, the other level you made adjustments on is Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home. However, no adjustment is needed there either if you use my solution. See attached replay. This is the solution I used in Lemmini. If the climber doesn't climb over the pit I made at the beginning, then I would have two builders leftover, but since he does, that's why I used a spare builder to turn him around and hence I have one builder leftover.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 09:42:57 AM

ok I finally got Field trip to work. there were spots again the stupid climber kept climbing over where he shouldn't be. 1 near where the floaters fall just too the left of bash area. another spot below pool table. sloped terain he climbs over. I slightly adjusted those spots so he would just turn around. and then of course I added the 1 extra miner. also on bottom left before rightmost oneway wall barrier the slope he can bash through so i made an slight terrain adjustment there so he would bash.

now that you have my pack and ichos style and 1.43 here is my level 21 field trip and replay

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 09:44:54 AM

yes i remember now the drunk lemmings on the way home(i knew it was a shadow level). I was only following icho's youtube video solutions. that's why I made those adjustments for those 2 levels with the 3 builder blockade.

ericderkovits · July 29, 2020, 09:56:23 AM

i downloaded the 2 replays, but neither work in Superlemmini(says Level in specified replay file doesn't exist) and in Lemmini says (wrong format) so I cant see yours at all.

kaywhyn · July 29, 2020, 10:05:25 AM

Odd. In Superlemmini, my replays loaded just fine for me. However, in Lemmini, they also come up with the Wrong Format message. So, not sure why they're not working for you. In any case, let me try them in Lemmini and then I'll send those. Just a moment.

edit: reattached the replays. See my previous post. Also not sure if you saw it, but I also suggested simply expanding the terrain vertically up for Field Trip.

edit 2: attached the replays for Lemmini as well. For the Disturbance in the Matrix level, it's not what I wanted to demonstrate, but if you're able to view the Superlemmini replay the miner should hit the steel and turn around. The steel doesn't work for me for some reason. Also, note that for Drunk Lemmings on Their Way Home level that that won't work in the current updated version of the level in Superlemmini due to the OWW. In any case, instead of doing it the way I did in Lemmini, I simply mined with the lemming and bombed the miner at just the right moment so that they can't climb out to the left. Hopefully you're able to see the Superlemmini replay this time.