[NeoLemmix] SubLems

[kaywhyn]

Regarding Hellish 18, I would recommend taking a look at my replays for the NL Tutorial Pack. Also, the end is the same as the beginning, so once you figure out the start, the rest of the level should be easy. Hellish 20 is the exact same as the Superlemmini's version, just with all the many traps visible, so you should be able to imitate my replay for it, but as it's a 99 of everything level that means you are welcome to take any route you like!

[ericderkovits]

ok Hellish 20 is solved. did 2 ways. saving 96 with blockers because in NL there's deadly sides, and Kaywhyn's way saving 100. so I have 2 replays for this level.
NL's version is easier not only because the traps are visible, but because of backward framestepping(unlike Superlemmini only has forward). Also the save % is only 50%. but that doesn't make it harder since I used kaywhyn's solution saving 100.

I'll have to work more on hellish 18.

[Shmoley]

I think I need to be nudged slightly more in the right direction for Hellish 19

Spoiler

At the very end I tried mining on the left wall and then digging to trap them in except I'd get one lemming to start digging to the right of the first digger and when the first digger got low enough I would use a blocker to stop him and then when the second digger got down there to free him I hoped the second digger could use a blocker but there not being enough terrain beneath him due to him digging a tiny sliver of terrain to free him immediately free him from blocking and thus walking to the exit but he wasn't freed and thus I failed the level. I'm not sure what else I could do with the blockers!

[ericderkovits]

Hint: Try using diggers elsewhere.

[kaywhyn]

@eric I would put the whole thing in a spoiler tag (to do this, when typing a post, the circle with black and yellow triangles is the one to use, then just type in between the spoiler brackets) or at least modify it instead of outright giving away the solution like that. Remember that others who play this pack might want to figure out the solution for themselves. But yes,

Spoiler

I don't use diggers for the end part either. Regarding blockers, not only have you seen it turn any lemming around who hits it, you have also seen how some skills interact with it. At least in my solution, there is one skill that you have yet to see it interact with that is sure to produce an unexpected result if done correctly AND allow you to release and save both.

[Shmoley]

Spoiler

I was always aware of the miner-blocker trick this whole time, it's just that the blocker would have to die so that means I have to figure out a way to keep all 100 Lemmings until the end

[kaywhyn]

Actually, I just realized that eric's solution is much simpler, so he has confirmed for me that indeed my obscure trick I'm referring to in my spoiler is not necessary to solve the level. Let's just say that mine is a challenge solution that unless you're aware that the odd quirk combo works, it's likely one will not be able to come up with it. So, this most likely means that you're not using some of the skills in the right places and possibly that you're probably taking the route that's causing you to use up more skills than is necessary.

[ericderkovits]

hey kaywhyn I can P.M. You my solution. also since you already solved it, it's not giving away anything.

[kaywhyn]

@eric thanks, but I already know how to achieve your solution, because my solution also uses that in the end. Now that you mentioned it, I have no idea how something simple like that managed to escape me. However, I can PM you mine and you'll see that mine is way more difficult and definitely one you wouldn't think of. Then again, you might had seen me use this on one of the War levels of United.

[Shmoley]

It has been done. I completed Hellish 19 and 20. That means I have officially completed Sublems. So thanks to kaywhyn and ericderkovits for help here and there. So yeah.. I guess that's it. Here are all the replays. Thanks Colorful Arty for the pack of course! It was the perfect difficulty level for me. I think I'll tackle Lemmings Plus 1 next I've made it very far in that pack already so I may as well finish it up.

[ericderkovits]

that's a different way to do hellish 19. good job!

Also thanks for Hellish 18, I could have never done this level. I think that one is the hardest one in the pack.

[kaywhyn]

My congratulations to you Shmolem for completing your very first custom level pack. I knew you could do it. It must had felt really nice to end the pack with a super easy 99 of everything level after all the nailbiting levels. Now that you managed to complete Hellish 19, let me PM you my solution so that you can see the obscure trick I used. You probably won't ever need to ever use it in any pack you play, but if it ever comes to it, you might remember and use it.

Best of luck with Lemmings Plus 1. I'm quite certain you can complete this too. I first played it on Dos and I managed to beat all of the pack except for two levels which are extremely annoying and fiddly to pull off on Dos (in large part because there's no framestepping, you cannot assign skills while paused, AND no directional select). One of them is in the NL version, which I managed to complete thanks to framestepping, while the other one was a level that got replaced with another one in future NL pack versions. Some of the levels are challenging, but they aren't anything you won't be able to handle.   

[ericderkovits]

oh I forgot if you want to try the retro rank i converted it to Neolemmix from Superlemmini. You can download the levels to your folder and try these too.

[Colorful Arty]

Congratulations Shmolem on completing the pack!

I know this is one of the easier packs out there, but it's still definitely tricky to beat, especially in the last two ranks. I hope you enjoyed playing.

Now... for my feedback on your solutions. You actually managed to backroute quite a few levels, so congrats on outsmarting me in several places I'll skip feedback on levels that were 100% intended and I have nothing to say about.

Newbie Solutions

No backroutes here, since these are the tutorial levels. There's really only one way to solve each level.

Sweet Solutions

Sweet 1: It amused me how overly complicated your solutions was, using one miner to cancel another. That's a trick I didn't want to require until the Insane rank. You can easily solve this level with just 1 miner.

Sweet 3: You built over one of the train cars with traps in it, but you can actually bash right through it. The hitboxes on the traps are too high up for the lemming to hit.

Sweet 5: Again with the miner cancelling trick. Admittedly, this is a tough level for the Sweet rank, I should definitely push it higher up. There are many solutions, but all of them require thinking outside of the box a bit.

Sweet 7: Very nice solution. This one is tricky because of the weird terrain. Getting the lemmings down either requires digging through the first cloud or making a bridge to stop the lemmings from splatting (or both as you did)

Sweet 8: The idea is to have both lemmings do everything together on this level, including making them both build at the end. You ended up separating them so only one had to build. Not a backroute at all, but not quite in the spirit of the "romance" feel.

Sweet 11: Interesting way of getting everyone up. The intended way is just making everyone a climber, which cuts back on making a dug path through the castle. Swerdis discovered it was perfectly easy to just build straight up to the exit.

Sweet 12: Nice solution. This level and its sequel I originally liked, but now I'm not too happy with them, mainly because the sequel keeps getting backrouted and I don't particularly like the intended solution either.

Sweet 14: Nice job getting the talisman! Swerdis made that talisman harder to get. Originally it limited you to 2 bombers, but he found a way to do it with just 1.

Sweet 17: Nicely done. Swerdis discovered a cheese strat for this level where you can just dig + bash under the entire thing for easy victory. I'm glad to see you went the intended route.

Sweet 19: Everyone who plays this level saves the blocker by freeing him. I don't intend for that to be required, you can just build over him. You're too smart for this level.

Sweet 20: I'm glad to see you at least destroyed some of his teeth. The boss battles all are designed to force the player to destory the boss terrain. I was worried you'd take the "just build over every trap" route.

Scary Solutions

Scary 1: You could have dug + bashed under the final traps, but several builders also works.

Scary 2: ...definitely not a solution I've seen before.

Scary 9: That's the most skill-efficient solution I've seen to this level. I normally send 10 climbers to dig and bomb any of the remaining wall away.

Scary 10: I have not seen that solution before. What's cool about this level is it's an any-way-you want level that still manages to be hard due to the weird terrain. Plus it's an homage to Kingdom Hearts.

Scary 14: Love the efficiency of your solution using the two climbers as independent workers to make the complete solution.

Scary 19: You could have saved some builders by utlizing the chain more, but still quite intended.

Chaotic Solutions

Chaotic 3: With what you did with the lemming who escaped the group and mined under the first trap, if you time it right you could save an extra lemming. Perhaps a talisman for the future update?

Chaotic 5: Would you believe it if this was originally for the late Insane rank? SO many backroutes have been discovered for this level that it's quite open-ended. All of them are at least a little tricky, so this is still in the Chaotic rank.

Chaotic 13: This was a backroute, similar to what Swerdis found. This will be patched in the update.

Chaotic 14: That is the first time I've seen this solution. This level has so many solutions that are unintended, but all of them are just as hard, if not harder than the intended solution, so I'm keeping them all in.

Chaotic 15: Your solution no longer works after I patched Swerdis's backroute. You had the right idea though.

Chaotic 16: The blockers are supposed to be red herrings, but your solution ended up using one. Freeing a blocker isn't supposed to be required until Insane though, so no patch is needed.

Chaotic 19: This is the one that gave you so much trouble. Some people see the ceiling route immediately, while others do not. Even so, it's a tough level, which is why it's at the end of the Chaotic rank. Nice job finishing it with time to spare!

Insane Solutions

Insane 1: This is the same backroute Swerdis found. I've patched it by adding more fire under the exit.

Insane 4: Nice job saving an extra lemming!

Insane 5: Definitely not intended. You can do the intended route for each original lemmings level here, you just have to multitask. I never would have thought you'd just let half of the Perseverance lemmings die like that

Insane 6: That's a backroute, as it skips the most important trick: freeing the blocker. That said, you did use the blocker in an incredibly creative way, so I think I'll keep it.

Insane 9: Nice alternate solution. The intended way is to climb bomb through the pillar on the right and build to the exit, but your way is still acceptable!

Insane 10: Nice use of the miner cancelling trick to get through most of the end. The intended way is to use blockers to turn the miners and free the blockers with another miner.

Insane 13: This level I believe can't be saved from backroutes. I'm not a big fan of this level anyways, since the intended solution requires some precise timing. I may end up redesigning this level (along with its Sweet counterpart) or I'll just leave the backroutes in.

Insane 14: That's a backroute, but nothing a little more fire can't fix.

Insane 15: That's the same backroute Swerdis found. Going to be patched in the next update.

Insane 16: Well, that's a backroute I can't patch, because it existed in the original Lemmings Ark. Well done. You did the level like 90% intended anyways.

Insane 18: Very impressive solution. Basically exactly what I did, with just a few differences. Well done!

Insane 19: This level is very, very broken. I'm going to have to redesign the solution to make it impossible to cheese, as well as making the intended solution more fair. (The intended solution right now is incredibly difficult and timing-based)

Hellish Solutions

Hellish 1: Dude, your method of bombing into the wall several times and building out of it over the flamethrower is one of the most ingenious things I've ever seen! That is going to be a talisman for sure! You got the entire rest of the level as intended!

Hellish 3: My backroute patch from Swerdis's solution has broken your solution. You were at least doing some things in a way that was unintended.

Hellish 4: You clever little sneak! You managed to get all of the lemmings to the top route. This is completely unitended and broke the entire level. That will be patched.

Hellish 5: Same backroute Swerdis found. That will be patched.

Hellish 6: Holy cow, congrats on saving a climber! That's not intended, but impossible to patch and almost as difficult, so I'll leave it in! The intended solution in for the upper crowd to dig, one of the lemmings being dug down to build, and then the left lemming bashes through the structure across the bridge to the climber exit. The other climber is used to stop the builder from walking to where the left lemming came from.

Hellish 7: Holy backroutes, Batman! That is one of the most impressive backroutes I've ever seen! It's also similar to the intended solution in a way, so I'll probably leave it in!

Hellish 8: This level would have been a lot easier for you if you had used the blocker + builder to make a holding cell against the wall for the first 20 lemmings and used the rest to climb and dig the way.

Hellish 10: Same backroute as Swerdis's. This will be fixed. You solved none of the level as intended.

Hellish 11: Me sealing Swerdis's backroute broke your replay. You seemed to have a similar backroute idea to him. It's a shame because solving this as intended would have made Hellish 18 a lot easier.

Hellish 12: Exact same backroute as Swerdis's. This will be patched.

Hellish 13: A unique backroute that I need to seal, because the intended solution is amazing.

Hellish 14: This backroute will be sealed along with Swerdis's. Actually, I think they were the same backroute.

Hellish 15: Same backroute as Swerdis's. This will be patched.

Hellish 16: Very nicely done! A bit more efficient than my solution too!

Hellish 17: This solution no longer works now that Swerdis's backroute has been patched.

Hellish 18: Amazing job. This is the hardest level in the pack, so you should be proud of that solution! It's more or less identical to my solution.

Hellish 19: The instant you assigned the first skill, I knew it was a backroute. You did about 40% of the level as intended, and you found the main trick (stopping a digger by turning him into a blocker). An easy fix.

Hellish 20: The final level is more visual than difficult. With 99 of every skill, it should be effortless, except it's not. Getting past the fire art the end I thought required builder + digger + builder etc. but you used bashers instead of diggers. Well done!

[Shmoley]

Wow.. didn't realize I backrouted THAT many levels! Some levels were like yeah this is probably a backroute and others not so much. For the easy levels and why I used some more complex things in them is simply because I like making super easy levels overly complicated just for the fun of it. But yes I enjoyed playing this very much and hopefully I'll be able to beat more packs in the future. I have my eyes on you Lemmings Plus 1 I'm getting kinda close to beating you!