[NeoLemmix] SubLems

[Shmoley]

I beat Tricky Quicky! And the level after it! Now I'm on Hellish 18...

Spoiler

It looks easy at first because I was like: I have 30 of everything.. How is it so hard? Then I realized.. YOU HAVE NO BUILDERS!

[kaywhyn]

That was quick! Guess you saw the solution for the level really fast. I think it took me at least a week before I solved Tricky Quicky. Did you ever try taking the bottom left exit? I remember fiddling around thinking I could get it to work, but alas nothing works. All the other levels in Sublems, at least on Superlemmini, took me an hour or less. It's a wonder how Chaotic 18 managed to stump you for so long. Anyway, 3 levels left. Only one of them I didn't recognize (Hellish 18), so I can't assess its difficulty, while the Fire/Hell level has the exact same level title but is significantly different from the Superlemmini version (in NL, the exit is at the bottom, but in Superlemmini the exit is at the very top), so I can't say if the NL version is about the same difficulty or possibly easier or harder. I didn't find the Superlemmini version of the level hard at all.

edit: I just took a look at Hellish 18 after reading your spoiler. Wow, now I think this is going to be a real roadblock for sure. However, since I already know the tricks required due to the experience I have gained from playing and beating so many level packs, I think if I were to attempt solving it it won't be so bad.

I just took a quick swing at Hellish 18. Yup, not that hard for me since I already know the tricks needed and was able to solve in just 5-7 minutes. Still, I think this level will be a major roadblock for many.

[Shmoley]

Spoiler

Yeah how I did Tricky Quicky was I fiddled with the bottom exit for a while until I concluded that it was probably impossible to go that way. Then I tried bashing through the top wall and realized that if he was slightly lower he could bash through the whole thing. And then I remembered the Christmas Crossing levels and how when a digger and basher cross paths at the right time the basher will go lower a little bit and keep going. So I did that and then blew up the digger so he wouldn't make a hole the lemmings would fall through and die.. and yeah..

It really is a wonder what happened when I left Chaotic 18.. I didn't even play lemmings at all until I came back.. Who knows? Maybe a cleared mind is a better strategy than we could have imagined!

[Shmoley]

Spoiler

Ok so I've gotten myself to the very end of Hellish 18 where there's the giant wall and the exit on top. I honestly don't know how it's even possible to get up that without builders! Edit: I'm looking at the level while typing this on my phone.. and I think I'm starting to see a way..

Edit: SO. I was right! I did beat it and all I can say is

Spoiler

Plenty of Digger-basher stairs/Digger-miner stairs!

[kaywhyn]

Yup, that's pretty much it! You have plenty of resources to do it. Also, the save requirement is extremely lenient for a level very late into Hellish, which isn't the main problem of the level. The main challenge is getting up the level in several places since you aren't given builders.

Well, two levels left! You got this!

[Shmoley]

Hellish 19 is giving me some problems. I'm able to get right to the end but by the time I get there I usually only have some diggers and blockers left. Forcing me to kill one. But I have to kill the blocker at the start as well. I'll get a failed replay so you can see what I mean. Edit: In this case, I didn't kill the blocker but it still forces me to kill two at the end..

[Colorful Arty]

Nice job Shmolem! You only have 2 levels left!

You're through the worst of it, since I consider Hellish 18 to be the hardest level in the pack by far. I'll save my feedback on each individual replay you've sent until after you're finished. It seems you've found a few backroutes, most of them were also found by Swerdis, but they've been surprisingly on the money for the most part! You've got this!

I myself would had loved to see the Impossible rank.

Trust me, no you wouldn't.

[kaywhyn]

@Shmolem Ok, since this level has the same title as Superlemmini's but the layout is completely different, I didn't know the solution to it. Because I'm one of those people who likes to solve levels before viewing solutions and replays, whether it's a solving or a failing one, I needed to attempt the level myself first. Interestingly enough, I too also struggled greatly with this level, but I was able to finally solve it after about 1.5-2 hours. I guess that's expected, since this is the penultimate level of the pack, after all. This is quite similar to the penultimate level of the original lemmings, where the consensus appears to be that it is much harder than the final level.

Now that I know the solution, even though it is a different level in terms of layout and the amount of skills provided, I have to say the Superlemmini version is many times easier. Once I solved the NL version myself, I took a look at your failed replay.

Spoiler

I don't know if my solution is intended, but it does use all the skills and a very difficult, obscure trick that you wouldn't expect to happen at all given the behaviors of the skills.

As for your solution, you're on the right track, but you'll need to think outside the box some more with some of the skill placements. Try and see if you can come up with a way to conserve the skills that can come in handy later on. If necessary, experiment with some different routes.

Trust me, no you wouldn't.

I'll be the judge of that Since it was just a one mention thing on the level pack topic, perhaps you could elaborate on what you meant by "Impossible." Impossible in what sense? Unsolvable? Very unfair levels that require glitches? What would had been your description of the rank in the opening post of the level pack release topic?

Regardless of what I would had thought of the rank, as a huge lemmings enthusiast myself, I love seeing all levels and ranks of a pack, even the rejected ones. A good example is when I played through Lemmicks, where I still played through the entire pack despite hating some of the gimmicks myself. Perhaps the one thing I was relieved about was when it was decided to not activate both the Frenzy and Superlemming gimmicks in the entire Hasty rank, and instead in its current form half of the rank with assign on collecting a pick-up active and the other half with the Superlemming gimmick active. In its current form there was still one very obnoxious level in the rank that I raged so much at that had both Frenzy and Superlemming active. The rank finisher also had both active, but it wasn't as bad due to the very low RR. Even then, I probably would had loved to see both Frenzy and Superlemming gimmicks active for the entire Hasty rank and see how far I could had gotten before I probably raged quit. Believe me, it takes a lot to make me rage at lemmings levels.

Anyway, I digress. Since your Impossible levels are probably long gone or still somewhere in your hard drive but you're probably not going to release them in any form, they likely won't see the light of day from any of us.

[Shmoley]

There's just something with Hellish 19 I'm not understanding.. I'm just not able to save enough skills for the end.. and I'm not sure what to change so I have that extra skill..

[kaywhyn]

I have a feeling this is going to give it away completely, but

Spoiler

Again, I don't know if this extremely obscure trick in my solution is intended, but I honestly don't see any other way that the level can be solved without it. The blockers are key here.

See if this gets you anywhere, and if it doesn't, I'll either edit or make another post with an even bigger hint.

[ericderkovits]

Anyways I've noticed you didn't post replays before chaotic so i"m doing these levels as I want all the replays for neolemmix's version also. But ones you posted i Keep.

Also some of the replays you have didn't get all the talismans. So the ones you didn't get I solved getting them.

Here is the list of the 10 Talismans (insane 18 is a double, got both at same time(Gold and Silver)

1) Sweet 14: Complete with max 1 bomber (Silver Talisman)
2) Scary 2: Complete with max 1 bomber and 6 builders (Silver Talisman)
3) Scary 2: Complete with no bombers (Gold Talisman)
4) Scary 9: Complete with max 5 total skills (Silver Talisman)
5) Chaotic 17: Complete with max 19 total skills and complete under 1:30 (Gold Talisman)
6) Chaotic 19: Complete with max 1 bomber (Gold Talisman)
7) Insane 10: Save 5 (Silver Talisman)
8) Insane 15: Complete with max 2 climbers (Bronze Talisman)
9&10) Insane 18 Complete with max 13 total skills(Silver Talisman) & Complete under 1:30 (Gold Talisman)

[kaywhyn]

Personally, I don't care too much for the talismans, as I'm content on simply passing the levels in any way possible. I did get the one for Chaotic 18 back when Shmolem was stuck on that one, but that one's really easy: It's simply refining the solution you found for that one and making sure you break through the starting area without one. The talismans can pretty much be seen as challenge solutions, and often times solutions for them are much different from the normal solution. For the most part, I will generally only attempt one if I feel I'm able to get it to work, but if it appears to be one that's beyond my abilities then I'm not even going to bother attempting it.

[ericderkovits]

Yes, I don't care for Talismans either I prefer having none. The only reason i got these were because Youtube has Sublems solutions and I used those to get the talismans.

Don't worry Shmolem Youtube doesn't have any posted ones after Hellish 16 so trying to peek for Hellish 19 won't be there.

[kaywhyn]

You need to keep in mind the Youtube solution can be one of many solutions, depending on the level. Especially if it's open-ended and any way you want.  Not using every skill doesn't necessarily mean the solution is a backroute for these levels. After solving a level, I will sometimes watch a replay or video solution just to compare, as sometimes I wonder if there's a much better way than the way I did mine, for example. Also, swerdis has up to Hellish 17. In the meantime, remember that you can always try and attempt to solve it yourself, rather than wait for others in being successful in solving. For the time being, my hint for Hellish 19 is probably too vague, but my intent is to simply guide people towards the right solution without giving so much of it away. That's how one gets better at level solving. Although I too struggled with it, once more the huge amount of experience I have gained from playing and completing so many level packs has helped me tremendously.   

[ericderkovits]

Hey Scmolem, I solved Hellish 19, but 18 I'm giving up on due to no builders. Will now try Hellish 20. Also Superlemmini Hellish 19 is different so I couldn't really do NL's using Superlemmini's

So I Managed to solve hellish 19 on my own, since Superlemmini's level is different and no Youtube to help me out. I saved the replay but I won't post until You(Scmolem solves it).