[PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design

[IchoTolot]

I have to say, even though the "weaken the "oh hey it's like DOS lemmings" link" is a thing that zanzindorfs new standard graphics look better to be.

It just looks way more refined especially with the letter shading, so I would support them.

I also think the outline while hovering over a sign is a great visual feedback and would support the implementation as well.

[WillLem]

Zanzindorf's logo is ace, definitely an improvement over the existing one. It'd be good to see a few other ideas as well, maybe have a few to choose from.

Love the outline idea as well, definitely a good visual cue for card selection. The menu cards themselves definitely need more of a facelift (although I'm sure we can all agree that they should have a consistent look). Just going to throw the one I edited out there for feedback one more time. I think the gradient gives the cards a more "modern" look, plus the lemming has stronger colour and definition. The text probably needs boosting a bit:



Whatever is decided, I think it's important that the cards and logo have a consistent look between them as well. So, the lemmings on the logo should look stylistically the same as the card-holding lemmings.

[Dullstar]

The logos / graphics do look nice, though one thing of concern is that NeoLemmix is trying to weaken the "oh hey it's like DOS lemmings" link. With that being said - the ideal goal is that it's similar enough to have the overall feel, but different enough to make it very clear that it isn't intended to be a direct clone (be it approximate or exact). I'd be interested to hear how other people feel - I'm quite open to adopting graphics like zanzindorf's (though first would have to see how well they fit with, if applicable, a larger panel size) if there's general support for them.

I like the logo. I understand the concern that it doesn't fit the goal of weakening the links to DOS Lemmings, but to be fair I think very few of the proposed changes go far enough for that.

Right now my thoughts for the panels/cards/whatever are that I like WillLem's proposal for the most part, but I think the text needs redone to be crisper (it's too anti-aliased for the resolution). Algorithmic anti-aliasing is generally designed for higher resolutions than most pixel art is drawn at.

[zanzindorf]

Here's another version. My aim was kinda towards a more modern look like WillLem suggested. The button text is completely different, now matches the font I used for the logo. It's a lightly modified "Cooper Std", bold for the logo, bold italics for the button text. Any input on the text would be great. I'm fairly happy with the letter shapes, but I think the shading could be tweaked a bit more.

Does anyone happen to know the font name for what's currently being used for the rank text on the original NeoLemmix menu? It's kinda a nice cursive style font, but I couldn't seem to match it, so I switched to Cooper Std.

(The cursor is also added for demonstration purposes.)

[IchoTolot]

Ok, this looks just straight up awesome!

It would get my vote!

[Proxima]

One worry: It would be quite a bit of work to replace all the individual rank signs in the original packs with ones matching this style. (For usermade packs, of course, it would be up to the pack creator whether they want to do this.)

[zanzindorf]

One worry: It would be quite a bit of work to replace all the individual rank signs in the original packs with ones matching this style.

It's not too much work. I'm working in Photoshop, so I've just got to re-type the number and save. I've made the ones for rank 1-5 already just to test out the look, but I thought I'd wait to make the rest until I get some feed back and maybe tweak a few things.

Not sure if it would help anyone, but I was thinking I could post the photoshop files too once I'm done, so people can edit the buttons easier for custom packs (If they have photoshop). If not, I can post the layered renders.

[IchoTolot]

It's not too much work. I'm working in Photoshop, so I've just got to re-type the number and save. I've made the ones for rank 1-5 already just to test out the look, but I thought I'd wait to make the rest until I get some feed back and maybe tweak a few things.

Not sure if it would help anyone, but I was thinking I could post the photoshop files too once I'm done, so people can edit the buttons easier for custom packs (If they have photoshop). If not, I can post the layered renders.

I think it's not the stage number Proxima is worried about, but the "Fun","Tricky","Havoc".... signs of the standard packs.

For custom packs:

They either have a completely custom sign set, or they just change the rank texts. In the case that they have their own sign sets it's no problem.

If they just have custom rank sign texts we must be careful that an inserted graphic inside of the rank sign still looks alright. An example would be Reunions rank sign texts.

[namida]

Does anyone happen to know the font name for what's currently being used for the rank text on the original NeoLemmix menu? It's kinda a nice cursive style font, but I couldn't seem to match it, so I switched to Cooper Std.

I made those, and IIRC was on a Windows 8 PC at the time. So it'll be one of the fonts that ships with Windows 8, assuming I didn't make it by hand (which I don't remember for sure either way). EDIT: Or possibly, one that gets installed along with LibreOffice (or did at the time), if it installs any of its own fonts.

One worry: It would be quite a bit of work to replace all the individual rank signs in the original packs with ones matching this style. (For usermade packs, of course, it would be up to the pack creator whether they want to do this.)

The only pack I would consider giving any special status to in regard to its rank graphics here, is Redux. Any other usermade packs, including other conversions / remakes / etc of the official games, are their creator's responsibility - of course I have no objection to zanzindorf or any other user offering to help out, but the lack of such would not prevent this menu design going ahead.

[zanzindorf]

Ok, this looks just straight up awesome!

Thank you! Glad you like it

I think it's not the stage number Proxima is worried about, but the "Fun","Tricky","Havoc".... signs of the standard packs.

Ah, I see. Once I nail down the shading, I'll probably do alternate sprites for the Original and Oh-No rankings, as well as Redux. It's quick to do, even for custom words like havoc and mayhem

I made those, and IIRC was on a Windows 8 PC at the time. So it'll be one of the fonts that ships with Windows 8, assuming I didn't make it by hand (which I don't remember for sure either way). EDIT: Or possibly, one that gets installed along with LibreOffice (or did at the time), if it installs any of its own fonts.

Thanks! That helps quite a bit. If I can find it, I'd like to do an alternate menu with that font just to see if we like it better.

[mantha16]

i like the blue writing at the bottom, the eyes on some of the lemmings are really bothering me they just look weird.

the font choice is readable altho it does look a tad too big on the level select screen. and i still hate that background but accept thats prob not gonna change lol.  this is not criticising zanzindorf at all btw I am totally in love with some of his styles if the lemmings eyes were changed I would like this but at the moment it freaks me out

[zanzindorf]

the eyes on some of the lemmings are really bothering me they just look weird.

Lol I kinda agree now that I step back. The ones with the "play" and "talisman" buttons especially don't translate well. The ones in the original DOS version have the same expression, but it just looks kinda weird in HD the way I did it. I'll take another crack at it.

I really like the background, but let me see if I can come up with an alternative just for comparison sake.

[namida]

One other thing I'd suggest, is stick to mockups at this stage. It is very possible the sizing of the graphics may change, as one thing that's under consideration is changing the underlying canvas size (with 864x486 being the current strongest contender) and presumably this would involve changes to the size of other elements too.

[Dullstar]

Personally, I prefer Zanzidorf's first mockup to the second one. The shading looks odd to me in the second one, both in terms of the implied texture and the overall coloration (too dark).

The text is (mostly) fine, though the F2 button prompt probably shouldn't overlap the text.

It's also worth noting the lemmings will likely look weird no matter what if the DOS version is used as a base: at least based on the Amiga version, it appears those graphics were originally intended to be drawn with a 200% vertical stretch, so they look a little squished.

I'd be interested in seeing what Zanzidorf's text would look like on top of WillLem's panel designs.

[zanzindorf]

Here's another mockup, this time only focusing on the logo and the play button:



Example 0: I reworked the anti-aliasing so it looks less jagged.

Example 1: Gave an example of my Cooper text on WillLem's button, per Dullstar's suggestion. I had to make it just a tad bigger.

Example 2: Reworked WillLem's button concept, kept the same theme, but made it more detailed and wider. Got rid of the texture from my last mockup. Also reworked the eyes (hopefully less creepy now lol). I gave the button a subtle gradient because I thought the one on WillLem's button was a bit too harsh, but I may have made it too subtle. There might be a happy middle ground, but I kinda like how it is. Makes it look more "shiny" if that makes any sense. This design also has more of a "button" look to it, which is important if we're implementing mouse compatibility.

Example 3: Mockup 2 (Based on the DOS menu but more detail)

Example 4: Mockup 1 (Based on the DOS menu)

RE the 200% stretch:

It's also worth noting the lemmings will likely look weird no matter what if the DOS version is used as a base: at least based on the Amiga version, it appears those graphics were originally intended to be drawn with a 200% vertical stretch, so they look a little squished.

That's super helpful, I did not realize. I'll remember this moving forward, but for now, I kept the same squashed look as the DOS menu simply because of the resolution limit.

For the current default resolution for a button sprite, one could fix the 200% stretch problem one of two ways: you could make the button smaller like WillLem's button, or you can halve the width of just the lemming. A smaller button in my opinion just kinda makes the menu feel more empty. On the other hand, halving the width of the lemming allows you to keep big buttons, but it also makes the lemming seem lanky and weird (it would need super long arms to hold the wide button).

Keeping the aspect ratio as it is I think would be fine, it doesn't look super weird to me, but maybe that's just because I've been looking at it for so long. I always just assumed they were short lemmings lol, or maybe they were sitting down behind the signs and resting it on their feets. Maybe I'll do some theoretical designs of the buttons if the graphics were a bit taller by default.

Thanks for all the feedback! It's super helpful. I think I'm going to work on designing an entire menu around "Example 2" and see how it looks. I'll also explore more options for fixing the squashed look.