Ron Stard's Rodents

[Ron_Stard]

My first level pack ever!

I've always wanted to make one with the original graphic styles and the original skills. So here it is!

Ron Stard's Rodents has 10 levels with 10 different graphic styles from the original games previous to Lemmings 2: Lemmings, Oh No! More Lemmings! and Xmas/Holiday Lemmings. I have omitted the special graphic styles because I think they are weakly associated with the Lemmings Saga.

I've tried to make levels with creative solutions, tight time limit and not too many lemmings. But of course, the experienced player may find the pack very easy and/or boring. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!

Changelog
2020/05/30 - Second version of the pack - 1.0.1
-Terrain changes in levels 2, 6, 7, 9 and 10 of Amusing rank
-Skillset changes in level 10 of Amusing rank
2020/05/23 - Initial release - 1.0.0

[NieSch]

Nice looking (large) maps and clever puzzles! I'll post some replays soon.

[Ron_Stard]

Nice looking (large) maps and clever puzzles! I'll post some replays soon.

Thank you for your feedback

[NieSch]

I solved half of them now. I guess some solutions are not intended. Here they are:

[Ron_Stard]

I solved half of them now. I guess some solutions are not intended.

You're right!

Spoiler

The solution for the first level is interesting. Never thought about doubling the tasks in the paths. Perhaps is a fine way to solve the level with 100%, which is almost impossible without the Pause (at least for me).
No time for a spa is solved exactly as I planned
Ouch, the backroute in Toys in the Arctic hurted me. But not as much as the one in Marooned. I think I should fix them. My intended solutions for them are more spectacular.

Your solution for the last level is close to the one I planned, but in mine I have more seconds left at the end.

[NieSch]

Yeah, backroutes can hurt. But there are always ways to fix them. And a backroutes versus fixes battle can be fun too and even improve the intended solution.

[Ron_Stard]

Yeah, backroutes can hurt. But there are always ways to fix them. And a backroutes versus fixes battle can be fun too and even improve the intended solution.

Agree!

Should I upload right now a progressive corrected version of my pack, or wait for all the backroutes to be found before posting it?

[Swerdis]

Hi,

since I don't make progress in SEB Lems at the moment, I decided to give another pack a try - and this would be yours. I made it to the end and want to say that I like this little pack. The levels are well designed, yet not too complicated - and though I don't exactly like time-limits, I feel they are appropriate here. I also think that I had an easy deal with some levels only because I am familiar with some tricks that are not known by total novices. That's especially true for "Christmas at Damocles' and "Workers of the World". For me, that hardest level was "Marooned" with a lot of precision required. I especially liked level 9, Honi Soit (what does that mean?). At a first glance I thought this level would be a pain because of the 44 climbers, but then it turned out to be real fun. You seem to like climbers, by the way.

All my solutions can be found on my youtube-channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Vidusaka

[Proxima]

Honi Soit (what does that mean?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honi_soit_qui_mal_y_pense

[Swerdis]

Thanks!

[Ron_Stard]

Hi,

since I don't make progress in SEB Lems at the moment, I decided to give another pack a try - and this would be yours. I made it to the end and want to say that I like this little pack. The levels are well designed, yet not too complicated - and though I don't exactly like time-limits, I feel they are appropriate here. I also think that I had an easy deal with some levels only because I am familiar with some tricks that are not known by total novices. That's especially true for "Christmas at Damocles' and "Workers of the World". For me, that hardest level was "Marooned" with a lot of precision required. I especially liked level 9, Honi Soit (what does that mean?). At a first glance I thought this level would be a pain because of the 44 climbers, but then it turned out to be real fun. You seem to like climbers, by the way.

All my solutions can be found on my youtube-channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Vidusaka

Thank you very much for playing and for uploading your solutions to the Internet! I'm glad you liked my pack!

About your solutions:

Spoiler

1. Asphodel Meadows
As straightforward as I expected. It's possible to save 100% using Pause and clicking on every lemming at the right point, but without Pause, I think it's impossible. In fact, in SuperLemmini, it's almost impossible to reach the minimum % even with Pause. I never expected this level to be that hard, I conceived it as a simple warm-up.

2. Toys in the Arctic
I like your solution more than mine! But since I'm going to make changes in the scenario, in order to fix the ominous and obvious backroute, maybe both became obsolete.

3. Trekking foray
A valid solution. Not the one I planned, but a plausible and original one. Nothing to object, since the key is basically the same.

4. Christmas at Damocles'
I conceived this level as a small joke, but I think the solution for it is interesting and wholesome. A relief level before the much harder ones that are to come. Of course, your solution is the one I planned, since is the only one possible . But it still requires some precision.

5. No time for a spa
Your solution is the expected one. This is one of the levels of my pack (the other one is Honi Soit) which could be enjoyed a lot more without all the help NeoLemmix brings. I have nothing against that, but it somehow soften the clever solution and the joy of finding the exact point and moment to make the magic happen

6. Marooned
You nailed it again. I agree with you that is a hard level that requires quite a lot of precision. But you can start the bridge way more to the right to make the solution more spectacular.

7. The Freedom Man
Nice solution, but not the one I planned. In mine, you can solve the level in a more spectacular way. Of all the levels and planned solutions I conceived, these are my favourites.

8. Workers of the World
Without a doubt, this is the level that requires the most precision, even more that Honi Soit. It's also a favourite of mine because of its spectacular and creative solution. I suppose I'm not the first one that conceived a level with such an unique solution, but perhaps I was the first that pushed it to the very limit. I tested the solution before in Vanilla Lemmix and even in MS-DOS CustLemm, because I wanted to be sure it was legally possible to make things work in the original game.

9. Honi Soit
If I recall correctly, this was the first level I ever designed in my life (the second one was Marooned, and the third one was The Freedom Man: all of them have been reworked and hardened since then).
As Proxima pointed out, the name of this level comes from the Coat of Arms of UK. I chose that expression as the name of the level because back in the day, when the idea for this scenario was conceived, I notice there was a lot of embarrasing backroutes that I overlooked, and that annoyed me a lot. Also, it had a easy to reach fake exit that lured the player, and also fake traps that were meant to confuse him/her (I originally design it for a old NeoLemmix version that allowed such things), so the name also served as an advice/threat to do things right. Well, years and versions of this game had gone by, and the backroutes still remained! Honi soit qui mal y pense!
Perhaps I was too ambitious with this level and the planning of its (not) only possible solution. But I'm glad you backrouted it only partially.

10. End of quarantine
As you may suspect, the title of this level is deliberate and related to these COVID-19 days. Also, it serves as a vague clue to the solution, with the lemmings breaking their confinement and finally merge into the crowd and gather together, safe and sound.
Your solution is exactly the one I planned. You can also take the right path, since the level is simmetrical. This level requires more precision in Vanilla Lemmix, and of course, is more gratifying to solve there.
I wonder if the user named WillLem would want to play it without Pause, it's a level that is interesting enough to add to his Pause-free challenge

The user named NieSch found an alternative way to solve the level. Not exactly a backroute, but definitely a less spectacular way to solve it (of course, his solution is quite fine: I am not suggesting that I don't like it).

Thank you very much again for taking the time to solve all the levels and record your solutions. I take it as a compliment, I didn't expected it

[Swerdis]

Hi,

thanks for your detailed feedback. I watched your intended solutions which is always an interesting thing for me. I especially like you solution of Honi Soit. Maybe the intended loss of some Lemmings at the beginning deterred me from trying it this way. And you avoided the trick I used - to make a builder lay a step through a thin obstacle to make the fall safe on the other side. I thought that would be required here.

When I create levels (I didn't make a pack so far, just individual levels that are supposed to form a pack one day) I deal with backroutes depending on the level type. Let's say when a level is built around a specific trick, then figuring out that trick should be a conditio sine qua non for the player - then I want to eradicate every backroute. But there is another set of levels that instead provide a limited set of skills that can be applied anywhere. These levels are not trick-based, but force the player to economize with what he has got available. When I make a level like this, I have already in mind right from the outset that there are (probably) multiple paths possible - ideally none of them should be easy to find. In cases like this, it's not important for me to have exactly one solution - and I would remove backroutes only, if they are absolutely trivial.

[Ron_Stard]

Hi,

thanks for your detailed feedback. I watched your intended solutions which is always an interesting thing for me. I especially like you solution of Honi Soit. Maybe the intended loss of some Lemmings at the beginning deterred me from trying it this way. And you avoided the trick I used - to make a builder lay a step through a thin obstacle to make the fall safe on the other side. I thought that would be required here.

Actually, I put the thin steel in order to avoid that route. I was considering just leaving the lemmings fall free, since NeoLemmix doesn't have timed bombers anymore, but I wanted the levels to be exactly the same and have the same solutions for NeoLemmix and Lemmix/SuperLemmini - in fact, I upload both versions to the forum and the Camanis site. Maybe I consider to change that for this particular level.

When I create levels (I didn't make a pack so far, just individual levels that are supposed to form a pack one day) I deal with backroutes depending on the level type. Let's say when a level is built around a specific trick, then figuring out that trick should be a conditio sine qua non for the player - then I want to eradicate every backroute. But there is another set of levels that instead provide a limited set of skills that can be applied anywhere. These levels are not trick-based, but force the player to economize with what he has got available. When I make a level like this, I have already in mind right from the outset that there are (probably) multiple paths possible - ideally none of them should be easy to find. In cases like this, it's not important for me to have exactly one solution - and I would remove backroutes only, if they are absolutely trivial.

For me it's important to "force" the player to get the same or similar solutions I prepared, because I feel they are spectacular and brilliant (at least to some degree). But of course, that requires waaaaaay more planning and research than I did. Backroutes hurt me a little, because I didn't use unknown or uncommon glitches or tricks (except maybe in Workers of the World) that forced the player to choose another route. I think only a few of my levels allow different routes, at least from the point of view of my intended solutions.

I wonder if you and NieSch would help me with reworks and fixes of the future revisions of the levels (I mentioned both of you, since you were the only two users that gave me feedback).

[Swerdis]

Yes, you can count on me on that as long as my time allows it. For me, when I try to solve a level, the only thing that counts is the result. I don't shy away from using glitches when it works and I won't watch out for a better solution then. Because it's always up to the creator to prevent that :-)

Do you plan to create a larger pack?

[Ron_Stard]

Yes, you can count on me on that as long as my time allows it. For me, when I try to solve a level, the only thing that counts is the result. I don't shy away from using glitches when it works and I won't watch out for a better solution then. Because it's always up to the creator to prevent that :-)

Thank you, I will send you some P.M. with level modifications in the following days.

Do you plan to create a larger pack?

Yes, but not adding levels to this one. My original idea was making one level per graphic style of the original games (thus designing only 10 levels), and releasing the pack for Lemmix, SuperLemmini and NeoLemmix, with the same solutions and the same (original) skills. Since that plan was completed (despite backroutes), the next logical step would be making a levelpack without being limited for the original scenarios and skills, and of course, with new levels. I am still toying around with simple ideas, because I am not familiarized with the new skills and physics.

But yes, that is my plan: to make a level pack with more levels.