Level Design Contest #20 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[JRT]

I attach my replay for V4 for All in Good Timing.

[IchoTolot]

Solved more, but really need a break now.

Just 2 levels remain to be solved: Armani's R2 and DireKrow's R3. Would like to know if an attempt that failed by a pixel in Armani's R2 was close/intended.

Rule 2 vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvbeeTiA-kg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25JWLlDfBWk
                   
Rule 3 vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuG_RXTymaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v9VcTUyluc

Replay collection attached.

[DireKrow]

Icho's "Shoestring Operation" solution is the intended one. Their solution to "Traipsing About Tombs" is the same as Armani's, so an intended alternate solution.

"Cheating at Sports" turned out to be pretty hard. If anyone's stuck on it, no worries! Here is hints for anyone that wants them:

Spoiler

Big Picture

The intended solution uses all of the skills, including the pickup. Changing the release rate is not necessary, but can help during at least one of the steps.

About The Rule

Deception is a key theme of this puzzle. Keep in mind the level's rule. Although it looks like each group is separate, it's necessary for them to help each other.

About The Goals

Although each goal can only accept 10 lemmings, keep in mind that it doesn't have to be the 10 from the hatch in the same quadrant as the goal. All 10 lemmings from one hatch don't necessarily need to go to the same one goal, either.

About The Terrain

Careful observation of the terrain helps a lot in this level. The positions of many of the objects and slopes are deliberate, as are the holes.

About The Pickup

View the pickup as a hint for where a lemming needs to go, rather than as an obstacle. What can a lemming do from in there?

About Destructive Skills

Don't forget that bashers can remove floors and diggers can remove walls. It may even be possible to do both at once.

About Constructive Skills

Sometimes, even the smallest of gaps require a platformer to cross. Sometimes, it's better not to cross large gaps at all.

About Athletic Skills

Figuring out where to use the climber is important. Which quadrant benefits most from a climber? What impact does that have on the solution as a whole? What can a climber do in the later stages of the puzzle that no other lemming can?

Specific Hint for Top-Left

Most of the top-left crowd is contained. They are the last group to have the path prepared for them, and are thus the last lemmings to exit the level.

Specific Hint for Top-Right

The pickup is not collected by a lemming from the top-right hatch. Consequently, a lemming from a different quadrant must enter this quadrant.

Specific Hint for Bottom-Left

A digger is not used in the bottom-left quadrant. The goal is reached via a different method, thanks to some outside help...

Specific Hint for Bottom-Right

All 10 of the lemmings from the bottom-right hatch exit via the bottom-right goal. They still use some outside help to get there, though...

Also attached the replays for anyone who has given up or just wants to watch the first few seconds for a hint on how to start. There's one for the V1 and V2 versions of the level, but it's the same solution.

[Crane]

I'm too ashamed.  I don't want to do this any more.

[Armani]

And here are bunch of replays for rule3 levels!

Worng-side Failure
I felt like this is very close to intended. Nice puzzle with clever use of the skills combination!
Get some rest and I hope you feel better soon Crane.

Cheating At Sports
It was another impressive level by you. But I think I got a completely disjoint solution, so you need to fix it. Another replay I attached has some interactions between the sections so it may be more close to intended I guess.

Switcheroo
It seemed easy at first but I failed several time because I was always 1 platformer short. And I finally found a way to save a platformer at the very beginning so solved the level. I very enjoyed it and like the concept of the level.

Would like to know if an attempt that failed by a pixel in Armani's R2 was close/intended.

I saw your vid solving my level. And I can assure you the level is solvable and doesn't require any frame-precise or pixcel-precise things.
But I have to admit that there are some things that are impossible but look like they could work if they are optimized well which can confuse player. So I will make an update soon. And interestingly, one of your attempt is although not intended and bypass core trick, used every skill in same position as the intended solution. The difference is order of the skill and the lemmings who perform the skills.


One Thing At A Time
As Crane already mentioned, this level definitely requires frame stepping and I even needed replay edit mode.

The Lion Sleeps Tonight
Nice looking level with good music which I like. The only complain by me is that it was a little bit hard to tell which is terrain and which is empty space. So I had to use CPM often. Other than that, I like the level overall.

All in Good Timing
I have some leftover skills. Not sure this is intended.

[Armani]

Oh and I didn't notice that the new level was added.
I like the clever use of the shimmiers and stackers.
Not sure if double stackers over the exit is intended or not but seems at least acceptable for me

[DireKrow]

Cheating At Sports
It was another impressive level by you. But I think I got a completely disjoint solution, so you need to fix it. Another replay I attached has some interactions between the sections so it may be more close to intended I guess.

2nd replay is the intended solution! The 1st replay is a backroute and violates the level rule, so I definitely need to fix that. Fortunately it's an easy fix, though it does make the intended solution a little more obvious. But considering the level's difficulty, that might not be a bad thing.

[Dullstar]

I watched Icho's video for my R2 level. It's definitely a backroute, and he certainly did some very interesting things with stackers, miners, and I think I saw a shimmier in there, too? In any case, it's played on the v1 version, but his backroute should in theory also be functional in v2 (I didn't attempt to run it on v2 to confirm, however). It's a different backroute than Armani's, but uses a similar tactic to get the crowd down from the entrance area. While I wasn't specifically targeting this backroute when I made v3, I expect the changes I made in v3 should be sufficient to patch this one.

[JRT]

Nice one Armarni, it looks like you found the other solution to One Thing at a Time.

Indeed, the use of frame stepping is key to the level.

Watching the replays back is amusing.

I attach my replay for V5 of All in Good Timing.

[NieSch]

I attach my replay for V5 of All in Good Timing.

Not intended, but a very nice (and acceptable alternative) solution that requires good timing too.

I attached my intended solution for this level.

[JRT]

Haha, cheers! I might try and find your intended solution before having a gander at your replay.

I like the level. Have you had a crack at my Rule 3?

I attach my second replay for V5.

Ahh I tried something like the start your intended solution but missed the possibility of the pool build!

[WillLem]

Both Armani and Icho got the intended solution for Lemmy Watch The Stars! I genuinely thought the level would be a challenge even for these guys. As impressed as I am however, these two are probs the best solvers on here so I can't say I'm surprised.

@Armani - yours had a slight variation at the end, but it's more than acceptable as you solved all the main puzzle elements of the level and used all the skills.

@Icho - seeing you get it on the first attempt was quite something! I like the fact that you took a look at the level for a few seconds, and then said "let's just go for it..." and then proceeded to solve it exactly as intended!

These are a solid set of levels by the looks of things! I haven't had a look at any replays and I only watched Icho solving my level, so I'll have a go at them over the next few days and see if I can solve any of them! Might even do an LP of my own, actually...

EDIT: I have filmed an LP for Rule 1 now.

[NieSch]

Haha, cheers! I might try and find your intended solution before having a gander at your replay.

I like the level. Have you had a crack at my Rule 3?

I did, but I gave up after a while and watched a replay. Very creative level! (But I'm not a very good level solver. I prefer creating levels. )

I attach my second replay for V5.

Ahh I tried something like the start your intended solution but missed the possibility of the pool build!

But again, a nice alternative "good timing" solution.

[IchoTolot]

Had a little session today and resolved/solved everything except Armani's R1 and R2. R1 is having me missing 1 skill regardless of it's type where R2 is having me missing pixels. Those will need an extra session it seems.

DireKrow's R3 was pretty impressive and I think I finally found the intentional solution.

I attached my replay collection.

[Nessy]

@IchoTolot haha nice backroute I'll have to think about this one for a bit before V4