[SUG][PLAYER] Ability to turn skill shadows on and off

[WillLem]

Am I really the only person who thinks that Skill Shadows should work in the same way as CPM, Splay Height Ruler, Projection Shadows, and basically everything else that's hotkeyed in the Player...?

I thought that there was way more support for the idea of an option than this...

Again though, maybe some of the people who would generally keep Skill Shadows enabled most of the time still would enjoy the option of, well... an option!

[Proxima]

Am I really the only person who thinks that Skill Shadows should work in the same way as CPM, Splat Height Ruler, Projection Shadows, and basically everything else that's hotkeyed in the Player...?

The usage of skill shadows is different from all of these. They are all features I would want to have inactive nearly all the time, so having to press a hotkey when I want them isn't much inconvenience and is better than any alternative. I would hate the inconvenience of having to press a hotkey any time I wanted to see a skill shadow; if they were to be optional, I would want them to be something I turn on or off once per session.

That said, I do agree that the way the poll is set up is rather biased, since it asks only "which would you want most of the time", so those who would like there to be an option (but would still leave skill shadows turned on most of the time) get lumped together with those who don't want an option to exist at all.

[namida]

Am I really the only person who thinks that Skill Shadows should work in the same way as CPM, Splat Height Ruler, Projection Shadows, and basically everything else that's hotkeyed in the Player...?

The usage of skill shadows is different from all of these. They are all features I would want to have inactive nearly all the time, so having to press a hotkey when I want them isn't much inconvenience and is better than any alternative. I would hate the inconvenience of having to press a hotkey any time I wanted to see a skill shadow; if they were to be optional, I would want them to be something I turn on or off once per session.

That said, I do agree that the way the poll is set up is rather biased, since it asks only "which would you want most of the time", so those who would like there to be an option (but would still leave skill shadows turned on most of the time) get lumped together with those who don't want an option to exist at all.

How so? That scenario would fall under the 3rd or 5th option, depending on what their preference is for *how* to turn it off.

I guess it excludes the possibility of "an option exists in the menu, but can't be changed in-game", but I was under the impression that was pretty much considered a bad idea on practical grounds - the user should always have a way to turn it on when in-game, or at least, should have to go out of their way to not have one (I don't particularly care if eg. they've chosen the toggle option, turned it off, then deleted the hotkey).

[WillLem]

The usage of skill shadows is different from all of these. They are all features I would want to have inactive nearly all the time... I would hate the inconvenience of having to press a hotkey any time I wanted to see a skill shadow

Fair enough. Toggle on/off does seem better than the "hold" option, even though I feel it does bring the feature in-line with the other player-assists. I see what you mean though - Skill Shadows are probably used way more than the others.

Having said that - I still sometimes choose to navigate splat drops and trigger areas without using the ruler/CPM. I guess I believe it keeps my eye for the game well-tuned. If Skill Shadows had a similar implementation, players may find their judgement improves as they begin to rely on it (i.e. their judgement) more.

How so? That scenario would fall under the 3rd or 5th option, depending on what their preference is for *how* to turn it off.

Not necessarily. The question is asking what a person's primary choice would be. Even those who'd like to see Skill Shadows be made optional may still continue to keep them on all the time, knowing they can be turned off whenever.

the user should always have a way to turn it on when in-game

Massively agreed.

[Dullstar]

I think the poll results being what they are is because active users are more likely to vote in these polls than inactive users. We've definitely had people express interest in this, but it's usually from users who make a few posts and then we stop hearing from them. WillLem is probably the only one who's expressed interest in the idea who's actually active. Skill shadows appear to be quite popular with the most active users judging from the posts here.

While the poll technically does ask what you would primarily use (and not whether or not you'd ever use the other options), from the people who've posted I don't find it likely that this is a significant source of bias in the poll - there haven't been many posters who seem to both want to use skill shadows most of the time, but are also interested in the ability to turn them off sometimes. It seems that most of the people who are interested in the option to turn them off find them visually distracting, which is why they'd be interested in disabling them sometimes, while players who find them very helpful probably don't find them distracting even when they're not technically needed and thus wouldn't bother turning them off in these situations.

[WillLem]

We've definitely had people express interest in this, but it's usually from users who make a few posts and then we stop hearing from them

Yes, exactly. Skill Shadows are a very visually intrusive feature and can be off-putting; it certainly delayed my eventual transition from using SuperLemmini to NeoLemmix as my go-to Lemmings playing engine. It's possible that other users who initially dislike the Skill Shadows realise there isn't an option to turn them off, suggest there should be, but ultimately lose interest and go elsewhere.

I'm all about inclusion, and it seems to me that giving players the option to toggle Skill Shadows encourages more newcomers to get used to NL at their own pace - as I've said, it's possible that most newcomers will start by turning them off to get the more familiar experience, give them a try, and eventually realise they prefer to have them on all the time.

Personally, I think Skill Shadows are great and I certainly recognise their benefits, but it would be nice to occasionally turn them off so that I can rely on my own judgement once in a while.

Ultimately, those who simply put up with the Skill Shadows in spite of finding them distracting will finally have a way to manage this for their own gameplay experience, which is an important thing to offer players both for reasons of preference and accessibility.

[WillLem]

Ooh, look! A couple more people have voted for a toggle!

[namida]

Okay so - it looks like there's no demand for a press-and-hold. That's awesome - that would have been the most annoying to implement.

Presuming there's no "gotchas" that make this harder to implement than expected, I think this should be fairly reasonable to implement.

As for the finer details - one way to go about this would be that there's a config menu option to turn them on and off, which can also be toggled in-game via a hotkey that the user can configure. Regarding "what if the user has no hotkey configured and turns it off" - there are two options I can see here. Option 1 is "it's their problem" - you'd have to pretty much go out of your way to end up in such a situation, not sure it's worthwhile trying to fight it. Option 2 is "disallow turning shadows off unless a hotkey to turn them back on is configured".

Another possible implementation is that only a hotkey exists. Disabling shadows does not carry over between sessions (or perhaps - not between levels?), and can only be done via the hotkey. This system would actually be easier to implement than the above, and makes it virtually impossible to be stuck without shadows (especially if it resets between levels), but could be considered less user-friendly.

A seperate question is, should they be always shown regardless of setting when in Clear Physics Mode?

Goes without saying - projection shadows will be shown regardless of setting. They only show in the first place if you press a hotkey, so it can be assumed the user does not want them hidden.

[Dullstar]

While I understand the desire to avoid excessive config menu options, it's probably the most sensible place to put the option. If I wanted to the option for some reason it'd certainly be the first place I'd look.

[Proxima]

Yes, an option in the menu is the most sensible place, and then respect the player's choice -- otherwise what's the point of giving them a choice at all?

[IchoTolot]

If this is going to happen then I think a checkbox in the opition menu is the way to go as well.

[WillLem]

+1 for F3 menu checkbox option, and +1 for this being toggleable in-game.

I still think the best way around "what if someone toggles them off by mistake" is: simply make it so that there is no default hotkey initially - it must be configured by the user.

There are a lot of options that don't have default hotkeys, there seems to be no reason this couldn't be another.

[namida]

Okay - so, most people are interested in having a hotkey, unless they aren't interested in the feature at all, it seems.

Final poll is up now. While this isn't necesserially a matter of "whatever result wins goes" (after all, it's a "what would you do?" poll, not a "what should NeoLemmix do?" one), I will make the final yes/no decision on this feature based on the results of this poll. Should that be "yes", it will be in the form of a hotkey + a menu option, and unless there is strong objection from people who are interested in turning shadows off in the first place, shadows will show when in clear physics mode regardless of whether they're otherwise enabled or not.

[namida]

Okay, I'm convinced there's enough demand to justify this feature, so confirm that it'll be implemented for V12.10.X (assuming no major obstacles to implementing it, of course).

[namida]

Commit 3e61a38 implements the feature itself (but not yet a menu or hotkey option to toggle it on and off, so right now the setting can only be changed via the INI file - this does not mean "an option won't exist", just "I haven't got that far yet").

As I've previously put forward - the exact workings are:
- If the option is on, most shadows will be hidden, but,
- Projection shadow will always be shown. Reason: The player must specifically hold a hotkey for these shadows to appear. If they are pressing that key, it is safe to assume they want to see the projection shadow regardless of their overall shadow setting.
- Shadows will be shown in clear physics mode. Reason: They help make the physics more clear, it would not make sense to hide them there.

I am open to changing (but not making a further option for) the clear physics mode thing if the people who'd use the "turn shadows off" feature in the first place mostly feel they'd rather it extend even to CPM.

EDIT: Commit 96afefb implements a config menu option. Up next, hotkey.