[BUG][EDITOR] Objects missing when opening .INI/LVL files

[WillLem]

This might not be a bug as such, but I've noticed that, when opening .INI and/or .LVL levels in the Editor, some of the objects are missing, specifically the water objects. It doesn't happen in every level though, and - wierdly - sometimes some of the water is there, but the rest of it isn't.

I'm guessing it might be something to do with how objects are named/understood between the different file formats, but I could be wrong. Is there's a way around this whilst .INI/LVL files are still supported by the Editor? If so, it would save a ton of editing...

[namida]

In Amiga / DOS / etc, the level format has 32 object "slots". Objects don't have to fill each slot consecutively from the first one (there can be gaps), though usually do.

What you're seeing is likely a case of those objects being in the 17th to 32nd slots. The Amiga / DOS / etc versions treat any object in these slots, except entrances, as fake. Since NeoLemmix doesn't support fake objects, it removes any that are affected by this. IIRC, it won't remove 17th to 32nd slot objects if they're not affected by the bug (ie: they're entrances, or they're no-effect objects). Some official levels do indeed have water with indexes that high - usually at the far sides of the level where the player is unlikely to actually go.

In the case of INI levels, the same objects are likely directly marked as fake.

[WillLem]

Thanks for the explanation, Namida.

Is there an easy-ish solution to this that would save me having to manually add the objects back in? For example - how were the original levels converted into NXLV format? And - do the versions from which the NXLV levels were derived still exist anywhere?

Better yet, do the unedited versions* of the original levels exist anywhere in a format that can be opened by the current editor?

*i.e. the versions with all decorative terrain still included on the outer edges

EDIT: After some experimenting, the same thing happens with the 1.43 editor... some of the levels are opening with objects missing...

[Proxima]

Better yet, do the unedited versions* of the original levels exist anywhere in a format that can be opened by the current editor?

*i.e. the versions with all decorative terrain still included on the outer edges

mobius and I made a pack called "TMChallenge" in which trapdoors and exits were moved into various places in the decorative terrain, so these could be used to retrieve the decorative terrain for all the levels we used (Not as complicated as it looks, Smile if you love lemmings, Nightmare on Lem Street, Lemmingology, Lemming Drops, Call in the bomb squad, Save Me). Indeed, I used this pack to retrieve full-decorative-terrain versions when building Lemmings Redux, so you could also just take them from Redux for all except Call in the bomb squad.

"TMChallenge" is available in Nepster's "Updates of Lemmix Packs to NeoLemmix" topic.

[WillLem]

mobius and I made a pack called "TMChallenge" in which trapdoors and exits were moved into various places in the decorative terrain, so these could be used to retrieve the decorative terrain for all the levels we used

Thanks Proxima, I'll take a look at this pack anyway - sounds interesting!

However, I can get all the original terrain layouts from the .lvl files in WinLemm. The issue is that both editors open these levels with some objects (usually water) missing...

[namida]

The issue is that both editors open these levels with some objects (usually water) missing...

Have you checked that the objects in question are there in DOS / WinLemm itself? The versions of the levels in those games often have the water at the bottom of levels removed.

[WillLem]

I converted the same level from .INI and .LVL as an example. In the .INI version (from SuperLemmini), some of the water appears. In the .LVL version (from WinLemm), none of it does.

From .INI:


From .LVL:

[namida]

I converted the same level from .INI and .LVL as an example. In the .INI version (from SuperLemmini), some of the water appears. In the .LVL version (from WinLemm), none of it does.

From .INI:


From .LVL:

Again: "Have you checked that the objects in question are there in DOS / WinLemm itself? The versions of the levels in those games often have the water at the bottom of levels removed."

What you see or don't see in SuperLemmini doesn't matter. SuperLemmini isn't directly using the LVL files from DOS or WinLemm; it applies modifications to make them more like the Amiga versions. Indeed, in that level you use as an example, there is no water in the DOS / WinLemm version of the level. This isn't a bug in NeoLemmix anywhere, the LVL file literally does not contain water objects.

[WillLem]

Again: "Have you checked that the objects in question are there in DOS / WinLemm itself? The versions of the levels in those games often have the water at the bottom of levels removed."
---
Indeed, in that level you use as an example, there is no water in the DOS / WinLemm version of the level. This isn't a bug in NeoLemmix anywhere, the LVL file literally does not contain water objects.

Confirmed: I tried this and a few other levels in WinLemm, and - indeed - the water is missing! Also, the orig_fire exit is missing its horns; I'm guessing for the same reason that All The 6s and the special levels were removed.

So yes, this isn't an NL issue. I'll concentrate on trying to get hold of the extracted Amiga LVLs instead.