Lemmings 2: Error Number 8001

[Dullstar]

Couldn't find anything about this online. Attempting to run on actual hardware.

Code Select Expand

Error Handler : Error Number 8001
457712 bytes Main memory used
1443168 bytes Expanded memory used
27136 bytes Main memory free
32111264 bytes Expanded memory free
1432 bytes of Data Space free
MEM Error : 1 : No Memory Available of required type

Figured I'd see if I can figure out why it's not working. Don't know what the hardware requirements are or if the computer in question meets them - I think I've had it running on that computer before, but maybe I've always only had it working on DOSBox and forgot about it.

[Simon]

Native Lemmings 2 needs a FAT16 hard disk partition. Is yours FAT16?

This is merely a wild guess from the error message. Around 2000, I've tried running Lemmings 2 natively, but didn't succeed because the partition was FAT32. I don't remember the error message after 20 years. Your error, literally, sounds more like some RAM type ("data space") is lacking and not the hdd, but I can't tell what it means.

Dosbox runs L2 well out of the box.

-- Simon

[kaywhyn]

IIRC, when I first played the game back in 2007 I downloaded Lemmings 2 from Abandonware and it ran in Dosbox perfectly fine. Have you tried that?

[ccexplore]

Out of curiosity, what hardware is this, and what version of operating system?

Can't find anything online that seems clearly related to the error.  The error message itself is confusing as it's not clear what type of memory it thinks there is not enough of.  Maybe "Data Space" but that doesn't sound familiar as a type of memory to me.

This really old site mentioned that disabling sound or set it to Adlib may help with certain out of memory problems, but it is not clear whether it will address specifically what you're seeing.

It may be worth trying the version of L2 from abandonia.com that includes L2-fix.exe, run that in place of the original L2 program and see if that makes a difference.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of running it natively as opposed to using DOSBox?

[Dullstar]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of running it natively as opposed to using DOSBox?

I had a sound emulation problem in DOSBox, but it turned out that the config had gotten borked at some point, and that's why the sound wasn't working. I was trying to compare the audio from the DOS and Amiga versions, and I happened to have the computer lying around, so running it on that was the first thing I tried when the audio didn't work on DOSBox.

I'll update about the hardware later. Even though I got DOSBox working, I'm still a little curious as to why it isn't working on real DOS now that I know there's an issue - though since I at least managed to accomplish what I was trying to do initially by figuring out what was wrong with DOSBox, it's a lower priority now. It occurs with both the L2 and L2-fix executables, but the computer's been mostly sitting around a while (I had to leave it with my family for a while due to not having space for it), so it may be possible that maybe some of the RAM went bad but there's still enough working for the computer to run, or something like that, or maybe the data somehow got corrupt. Probably another simple thing I can try would be to delete the game and reinstall it from a known working copy. I guess I just want to make sure it's not indicative of a larger as-of-yet undiagnosed issue with the computer.

[Forestidia86]

I've actually a small leaflet, which describes the error. The problem is that the game requires at least 570kb (601kb /w sound) of main memory and according to the output you have only approx 458kb used. You can use the command 'mem' to check how much main memory is free on the computer.

But can't promise that that is the problem.

Edit: Could reproduce it in Dosbox with loadfix.

[Dullstar]

Based on the mem command, it looks like there's plenty of Expanded and Extended memory, but only a bit over 570kb of conventional memory available (I don't know what the difference is) (theoretically, if it were possible to free the used conventional memory, there would be enough, but I'm guessing that whatever is using it is likely important).

I was successfully able to load the game without sound, and it runs correctly, so it does appear that the memory is the issue. I'm guessing L2 isn't able to use the Expanded/Extended memory.

[ccexplore]

I've actually a small leaflet, which describes the error.

Excellent!  I found some copies of the game manual online, but none seem to have any pages devoted to troubleshooting errors.  Curious where you got the leaflet from?

Still stand by my complaint that the error message is so badly designed.  It prints out all those technical details yet fails to say which kind(s) of memory is too low.

=============

The problem is that the game requires at least 570kb (601kb /w sound) of main memory

That's rather high!  As I recall, since DOS runs in x86 real mode, "main memory" (aka "conventional memory") is limited to 640kb, and some portion of it will always be in use by DOS itself.  So I guess Lemmings 2 with sound would need nearly all the remaining.  Other kinds of memory goes into the "expanded" or "extended" type of memory, and are treated specifically because they require extra work to make use of by real-mode DOS programs.

I suggest running the "mem" command Forestidia mentioned and get its output, to see more details on memory usage to maybe better understand why your computer don't seem to have the full 640kb typically available.  Perhaps you have extra device drivers and/or background services running that can be disabled or otherwise re-configured to not eat into the 640kb?  I suppose it's also theoretically possible that if some memory chip gone bad it might have happened to cut off the full 640kb available, though that seems a bit of a stretch.

[Simon]

I was successfully able to load the game without sound,

Interesting. Can you tell me what the file system of the C: partition is? It's possible that there really was no requirement for FAT16 in the first place.

-- Simon

[Forestidia86]

I've bought a second hand CD containing Lemmings 1-3 (German version, neon edition) and the CD cover has a leaflet with handbook.

Indeed 601K conventional memory is really much considered the 640K max. Dosbox has 634K free. As far as I know L2 uses on top of that expanded memory for sound.

The advice in the leaflet is to turn off some TSR programs. And indeed in good old Dos times one often found oneself tinkering with config.sys/autoexec.bat to get a program running, including turning off CD drivers, or using higher memory areas etc. But this is rather dangerous if you don't exactly know what you are doing since it can trash the system, esp. if you don't have a backup boot disk.

[Dullstar]

It seems the recorded sound effects specifically are what pushes things over the edge. It can handle the music just fine. Some experimentation determined the difference between the SoundBlaster and Adlib settings, and the Adlib setting (which uses FM synthesis for the sound effects as well as the music). In theory, it should have the appropriate sound hardware to use the SoundBlaster setting, but the sounds must take up too much memory to run the game on top of it.

[607]

Interesting! Very cool that this could be figured out.

[Zaphod77]

i think you need to load more stuff high.

like the mouse driver, and maybe soundcard drivers.