[Discussion] Projectile destructive skills (Bazooker, Mortar)

[Proxima]

We have a separate discussion thread for each of the other skills under consideration, so the bazooker/mortar should have its own one as well

First, I want to list some of the decisions that could go one way or the other, so as to make clearer the range of possibilities we are talking about.

* The projectile could be fired horizontally (L2's Bazooker) or in an arc (L2's Mortar). Of course, we don't have to keep the L2 names in either case. The projectile could also be fired straight upwards or in a diagonal line, but I don't think those are under serious consideration; they seem to be strictly less versatile than either of the main options.

* For the Mortar, we'd have to decide on the size of its arc. Strato Incendus seems to envisage the Mortar having a Jumper-sized arc (roughly 18 pixels up, 36 across), but I think at minimum it should be double this, maybe even larger (such as 64/128). (Remember that skill shadows will aid with placement, so this should not be much of a consideration.) I don't know what the arc size is in L2.

* The explosion could kill zombies, or all lemmings. (The explosion having a flinging effect as in L2 is not under consideration.)

* The explosion crater could be differently shaped or sized, compared to the bomber's crater.

* The projectile itself, while in motion, is a unique object whose interactions should be considered. Does it explode when it hits a lemming or another projectile? Can it teleport? Does it bounce off one-way fields?

[IchoTolot]

I am more in favor of a mortar compared to a bazooka.

I aggree to rather have a larger arc than a smaller one. Roughly 36 pixels up, 64 across as a minimum like you mentioned could be a good starting point, although I would even crank the height up to 64 pixels as well.
For a mortar I would argue that the height of the arc should be at least equal to the width.

* The explosion could kill zombies, or all lemmings. (The explosion having a flinging effect as in L2 is not under consideration.)

Either both or none I would say here. I am leaning to both though after thinking about it.

* The projectile itself, while in motion, is a unique object whose interactions should be considered. Does it explode when it hits a lemming or another projectile? Can it teleport? Does it bounce off one-way fields?

For the sake of simplicity and clarity I would say the projectile only interacts with the first piece of terrain it hits and then unleashing the explosion.

[Proxima]

For a mortar I would argue that the height of the arc should be at least equal to the width.

Here's a graph to help people envisage what that would be like. The lemming is standing at (-4,0).

Of course, whether the steeper or gentler curve is better depends on the specifics of the level, but I still prefer the Jumper-like curve, or maybe something in between?

[Strato Incendus]

Strato Incendus seems to envisage the Mortar having a Jumper-sized arc (roughly 18 pixels up, 36 across)

No, I never said that. I was talking about using the Jumper and other skills to get lemmings to cover the distance in-person that the projectile would cover for them otherwise. This may involve a combination of Jumpers, Climbers, Shimmiers, Gliders...

The arc of the Mortar should be larger than that of the Jumper, and probably rather steep, so that the projectile falls down again soon enough for you to also be able to use it to make holes in the ground, rather than just the ceiling / high walls.

[namida]

What kind of range should any projectile skill have? (I've posted this in the destructive skill one purely at random. If both happen, they will both have the same arc.)

If the left lemming uses a skill, how high on the wall should it hit (if it reaches the wall) at this distance? If the right lemming uses a skill, how far along the ground should it hit - or should it go further than any of these markers?

Please note that this is just a rough indication at this point. Likewise, the markings are for reference, not as "these are the only acceptable positions" - feel free to say "in between X and Y" etc. Likewise, feel free to download the image and sketch on it instead of referencing the arrows etc.

[Proxima]

(Also for reference: the bricks in the picture are 12 pixels tall, and I believe the horizontal arrows are 16 pixels apart.)

I believe the height should be at least 32 pixels (just short of the green arrow) and maybe more. My first guess was 48 (exactly on the cyan arrow).

I had a look at a few randomly selected actual levels. (48 is double the height of the large steel block in the standard tilesets.) It seems like a height of 48 might result in levels having to have more open space if you don't want the mortar to hit the ceiling -- for instance, in "KEEP ON TRUCKING" if you assigned it in the upper-right chamber, it could hit the ceiling crystals depending on the exact arc and position. Of course, looking at existing levels isn't entirely indicative, since they were designed for a skillset that didn't include the mortar, and L1 levels have a fixed height and (mostly) a much greater width.

Of course, sometimes we will want this to hit the ceiling, so it shouldn't be too shallow, either. I originally thought the width should be twice the height, but now I'm leaning more towards something like 40 high, 120 wide? (In terms of namida's picture: just above the green arrow for height; halfway between pink and white for width.)

[IchoTolot]

I would go for the farest and highest arrow here. The range is a selling point of the skill and should therefore be embraced.

You can even argue that it should be even higher when it would be the mortar case.

[namida]

I should clarify - I'm specifically meaning in terms of, for the left one, "how high will it hit the wall when thrown from that distance", not necesserially "what is the maximum height it can reach". (Likewise, for the right, it's "where will the projectile hit the ground when thrown along a flat surface", though that was probably less unclear.)

[namida]

Locking this topic; created a combined topic for the two kinds of projectile skills here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5172.0