Lemmings re-make

[Proxima]

Of course, being the lazy guy that I can be, I do wonder now whether we should simply ignore the existence of backroutes that use glitches, instead just pretending that the game does bar those glitches. &#A0;(Although, I'd probably still hack the game to at least fix the inconsistency regarding miners facing left/right and one-way walls.)

Of course, it depends on how much work the hack would involve, which I know nothing about.

I'm a bit worried about how this would affect some of my other levels, in particular "Lemming Dilemma" (not that I know whether you're planning to remake that one at any stage). For that level, it's required that the digger can survive the fall from the thin platform on the left after digging it, but a faller can't. Though I guess you can simply make the platform a little thicker if necessary.

If you are sure that level will still be workable, I have no problem with the suggested change.

[ccexplore]

Is it possible to adjust the trigger area for the acid water trap?

Another question: is it somehow possible to add custom usable terrain to LemEdit2? Where is the file containing all the terrain piece information as well as shapes etc?

The answer to both your question is yes, although I'm not sure we want to do this for the remake, especially regarding your second question.

The vgagrX.dat files contains the graphics data (ie. bitmaps) for the various graphics sets.  The corresponding groundXo.dat files contains the non-graphics data (eg. width, height, trigger area info, where in vgagrX.dat the graphics for this piece is located, etc.).  They contain info for both the interactive objects and terrain pieces of the set.

Is there a reason you want the trigger areas for the water to be adjusted?  I'm under the impression that they work fine in normal setups.

[ccexplore]

I'm a bit worried about how this would affect some of my other levels, in particular "Lemming Dilemma" (not that I know whether you're planning to remake that one at any stage). For that level, it's required that the digger can survive the fall from the thin platform on the left after digging it, but a faller can't. Though I guess you can simply make the platform a little thicker if necessary.

I do hope to remake all your levels.  For Lemming Dilemma, I'm thinking that the platform should be thick enough to do what you want, we'll see.  Certainly the general concept is possible since after all, We All Fall Down works!

[Proxima]

Yes, but from what you were saying it certainly seems that there's a minimum thickness required for a platform to have the desired behaviour, and I can't offhand remember what thickness I used in "Dilemma" -- besides being a bit confused as to how to work out exactly what the required thickness would be.  :

[ccexplore]

My ASCII pictures should be of help in working out the thickness you want.  Since the difference is all in the pre-fall, it's a matter of making sure the height at which the walker transitions to a faller is a bit higher than the height at which the digger does so.

The walker if you recall transitions at 4 pixels down:

+
X
X
X
X*

So we need the digger's transition position to be at least one lower.  Since currently the digger falls one pixel below the bottommost rows of pixels of the platform, this means a minimum thickness of 4 will do it.

With my change, you'd need a minimum thickness of 5.  For reference, I think in WAFD the thickness of the platform is 6.  I know the thinner the better, but I'd think even the 6 isn't that thick to be a visual atrocity.

[ccexplore]

and I can't offhand remember what thickness I used in "Dilemma"

I checked your screenshot and it turns out the thickness is 4.  So my change would require thickening the platform slightly.

[Leviathan]

Is it possible to adjust the trigger area for the acid water trap?

Another question: is it somehow possible to add custom usable terrain to LemEdit2? Where is the file containing all the terrain piece information as well as shapes etc?

The answer to both your question is yes, although I'm not sure we want to do this for the remake, especially regarding your second question.

The vgagrX.dat files contains the graphics data (ie. bitmaps) for the various graphics sets. &#A0;The corresponding groundXo.dat files contains the non-graphics data (eg. width, height, trigger area info, where in vgagrX.dat the graphics for this piece is located, etc.). &#A0;They contain info for both the interactive objects and terrain pieces of the set.

Is there a reason you want the trigger areas for the water to be adjusted? &#A0;I'm under the impression that they work fine in normal setups.

The trigger area of the water is fine,but not that of the acid from the pink set...it seems to be offset about 4 pixels too high...

The second question wasn't remake-related but rather a general question...but how can I get access to the BMP's inside the .dat files?

[ccexplore]

The trigger area of the water is fine,but not that of the acid from the pink set...it seems to be offset about 4 pixels too high...

Ok I'll try to look into it tonight.  But make sure that when you use the object you have its y-coordinate align to a multiple of 4.  Not aligning it to a multiple of 4 will causes the trigger area to be shifted up (so that it becomes aligned).

And couldn't you just move you terrain up a little in your levels?

The second question wasn't remake-related but rather a general question...but how can I get access to the BMP's inside the .dat files?

You'd need to write a program to do it.  Mindless might be the best person to ask with regards to this, he probably already has a working program.  Although, if you merely want the bitmaps, you can also just take screenshots from LemEdit.  At least that'd work for terrain pieces, and perhaps even the interactive objects if you are patient enough to keep trying until you get all animation frames.

[Mindless]

The second question wasn't remake-related but rather a general question...but how can I get access to the BMP's inside the .dat files?

If you want read access, I can just give you all the images http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/_misc/lem_object_gfx.zip and http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/_misc/lem_terrain_gfx.zip

If you want write access, you'll have to wait for me to get a version of gxplr that can write planar bitmaps.

[Proxima]

I checked your screenshot and it turns out the thickness is 4.  So my change would require thickening the platform slightly.

Ah, it seems that's not a problem; two of the other sorts of poles on that style have thickness 5, so you could use either of them without ruining the appearance. I prefer the one with thin bands by a long way, though.

[ccexplore]

Ah, it seems that's not a problem; two of the other sorts of poles on that style have thickness 5, so you could use either of them without ruining the appearance. I prefer the one with thin bands by a long way, though.

Actually, by stacking a bunch of those 2-pixels-thick thin platforms together in the right way and some erasers near the ends, I believe I can recreate the exact look of the platform you used in Cheapo.  So it's just a matter of thickness.

[Proxima]

 :-/  No, I'd much prefer using one of the real platforms.

[ccexplore]

:-/ &#A0;No, I'd much prefer using one of the real platforms.

Ok then, less work for me too.  I did assume though that you actually had a reason to use the particular platform you used in the Cheapo version, when you could've used the "real" platforms.

[Mindless]

Of course, being the lazy guy that I can be, I do wonder now whether we should simply ignore the existence of backroutes that use glitches, instead just pretending that the game does bar those glitches.  (Although, I'd probably still hack the game to at least fix the inconsistency regarding miners facing left/right and one-way walls.)[/color]

I'll stand on the side of laziness.  ;D  Personally, I think the game engine should be, for the most part, unaltered to make it as original as possible.  Besides, how many people outside of this forum would know about most of these glitches?

[Proxima]

Ok then, less work for me too.  I did assume though that you actually had a reason to use the particular platform you used in the Cheapo version, when you could've used the "real" platforms.

In the MichaelPink style that is one of the real platforms; I don't always remember where all the different pieces come from, so I treat them equally.

Looking back, I see that it's a rotated version of the pillar found in (e.g.) Fun 19. I can't be bothered to look through every level to see whether it ever occurs horizontally as well, and of course I don't use LemEdit so I don't know whether on Fun 19 it's a single object or built up in a complicated way. But I preferred to include it in the style because I wanted to include all graphics used on the real levels.