Lemmings re-make

[tseug]

Another level,this time in the pink set

It should combine 3 tricks:
-blocking lems with builders
-another (easy) method of blocking the lems on the other side
-a very neat basher trick

If there are no backroutes,it could be cathegorized as late taxing/begin mayhem I suppose.

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/bashtr.dat

I see three ways:
Block off both ends and repeatedly bash to get higher. (probably intended)
Use the builder turn-around trick. (probably not)
Use the sliding glitch. (no way)

[ccexplore]

Or just use a row of six traps, though that would involve changing the appearance, which ccexplore really likes, considerably.)

Since you already threw in one hidden cutter trap already, another one wouldn't hurt (no pun intended) and certainly would leave the appearance unchanged.

[Leviathan]

Another level,this time in the pink set

It should combine 3 tricks:
-blocking lems with builders
-another (easy) method of blocking the lems on the other side
-a very neat basher trick

If there are no backroutes,it could be cathegorized as late taxing/begin mayhem I suppose.

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/bashtr.dat

I see three ways:
Block off both ends and repeatedly bash to get higher. (probably intended)
Use the builder turn-around trick. (probably not)
Use the sliding glitch. (no way)

The main trick should involve creating steps by using bashers,and builders to stop them at a certain point.

Even if you could manage to do the sliding glitch on this level,what would you do with the lemming on top of the tower?
I guess the turning around builder trick could work 1 time but you can't turn around 40 lems with it



About new levels: I think we should have at least 1 superlemming level too

[ccexplore]

About new levels: I think we should have at least 1 superlemming level too

Good idea, although I'd guess that would only be for the ONML remake.

And I'd rather have just exactly one superlemming level, unless people feel otherwise.  I don't know, I guess I'm not that big a fan of it.

Although, it might be interesting to avoid the pattern of single-lemming superlemming levels.  Imagine for example a superlemming level with multiple lemmings and multitasking required!  Clealry a "Havoc" level.

[tseug]

Imagine for example a superlemming level with multiple lemmings and multitasking required!

AHHH! I'm not going to imagine that.....

@levi: I will get screenshots of each solution a bit later.

[chaos_defrost]

If "Rhapsody in Blue" is going into the later Mayhem set (which it definitely should be; it's a very brilliantly designed level), I think I'm going to re-make the original "Rhapsody" level (as it stands, it's a bit sloppy, terrain-wise) and submit it also. I think it belongs in early-mid Taxing.

I want to put "The Razor's Edge" in this set, as well, although I really have no clue where it belongs in the packs. I'd conjecture Late-Tricky/Early-Taxing, but the trick will either be horribly obvious to some or not apparent at all to others.

[ccexplore]

It's left-to-right, and for the rest, I can tell you tomorrow morning when I'm on my home computer again.

Don't worry about it.  After examing just a portion of it, I quickly noticed that there are already many places where you use pieces in a back-to-front orientation.  So there is no way for me to even get the "crystal shards" exactly right.  I've decided to just ad-hoc it and make something that looks reasonably good and similar.

[Proxima]

Since you already threw in one hidden cutter trap already, another one wouldn't hurt (no pun intended) and certainly would leave the appearance unchanged.

Yeah...... only one won't quite cut it    but for now I've added three more cutter traps, making a row of four evenly spaces between the five demolecularisers. I'm not completely satisfied with that, just because it seems very ad hoc to use hidden traps just to kill off a route; but then, the route isn't one the player should be encouraged to even think about.......

[ccexplore]

Hmm, I just notice a backroute for the LemEdit remake of Rhapsody in Blue.  It doesn't work in Cheapo because the glitch is CustLemm/Lemmings only:

[highlight]From entrance, dig some ways, then bash to the right until you're past the traps.  Turn the bashing in the midst of one of his bash strokes to a builder.  By interrupting his bash stroke at the right time, it's possible to leave only a small "dent" into the end of the bash tunnel, such that the narrowest part of the dent is one pixel in height.  Let some other lemming build facing right while inside the one-pixel part of the dent, he will then get trapped inside the wall.  Make him a climber.  Due to the CustLemm/Lemmings glitch, he will be able to climb up thru the terrain.  Let that lemming walk towards the exit, then have him mine into the steel block near the exit to turn him around.  Now have him use miners and/or bashers to complete a path to the exit.[/highlight]

The saving grace is that one of the moves involved needs to be timed fairly precisely so it's not exactly trivial.  And if we include people not in this forum as the target audience for our Lemmings remake set, perhaps not too many people would know of the glitch used involving the climber.  Still, many of you here know of it.

Please contribute ideas on how best to eliminate this backroute.

[Proxima]

I don't understand    Isn't the ground under the entrance metal? So how can you dig there?

[ccexplore]

Oh oops, for some reason I mentally had the entrance at some other location.

Ok good, no backroute then.

[Proxima]

Would something like this be possible? (I don't know how the climber glitch works, so this is just an idea....)

Block before the traps, and send one athlete over the arch. Dig down to the crystal ground and bomb. Meanwhile send a climber up the arch and have him dig away half the right pillar; bomb away the other half, and bash the left pillar. Bash under the entrance and traps, build to stop bashing. When the climber enters the "dent" at the end of the tunnel, as in your backroute attempt, build again to trap him inside the wall. Mine into the metal to turn round and again to save the other lemmings.

Though even if it does work, it's questionable whether it qualifies as a backroute. You can't save more than 77/80 and it uses just one skill less than the main solution. Although you do save a blocker, so you don't have to use a timed bomb to blow away the other half of the pillar, making execution a lot easier.....

[ccexplore]

Would something like this be possible? (I don't know how the climber glitch works, so this is just an idea....)

Yes it's possible, and I wouldn't consider it a backroute either.  Basically, as soon as you need to start dealing with the arch, it can be argued that a solution is no longer a backroute.

But reading your route brings up a good point.  Due to the lazy way CustLemm handles explosion and metal, an exploder that's standing on steel will not remove any terrain nearby, whether or not such terrain themselves are steel.

So in order for your solution to work, I believe you'd need a non-climber to do the bombing of the right pillar, and that must happen at the time when the climber has nearly but not completely dug down the right half of the right pillar (so that the non-climber can walk up to where the digger's at, and then explode).

[Proxima]

Yes it's possible, and I wouldn't consider it a backroute either.  Basically, as soon as you need to start dealing with the arch, it can be argued that a solution is no longer a backroute.

Hmm. I agree that it isn't a backroute, but not just because of the arch. The main thing for me is that you still need to be careful with your skills -- each one has to be used in a certain place and it's hard to find the route because the most obvious things to try (e.g. making the digger build to turn round, or mine down to the metal one the left) run out of one skill or other.

But reading your route brings up a good point.  Due to the lazy way CustLemm handles explosion and metal, an exploder that's standing on steel will not remove any terrain nearby, whether or not such terrain themselves are steel.

Damn!    I hadn't thought of that, but you're right, of course. So how can the main solution be rescued, without doing anything really destructive like adding a third climber?

[ccexplore]

Wow, it's been a while, I didn't even realize your intended solution is affected too.

Don't worry though, I can rearrange things so that the topmost row of pixels of the steel plates are non-metal.  Then the explosion will work, although it does look slightly unusual since it will also take out steel parts as well.  But I'm guessing as long as you can't bomb thru the steel completely (and you can't it's too thick) things should be ok.