[SUG][PLAYER] Indicate zombies in hatch

[Proxima]

At the moment, if there is a zombie hatch, there is no way to know how many zombies will spawn.

The most obvious solution is that the "still in hatch" indicator in the UI should include zombies as well as regular lemmings.

[Crane]

For reference, this is best viewed in my random level "Last Lemming Standing", where there are two hatches that spawn zombie lemmings (the only real lemmings are pre-placed), and they spawn a total of 500, so is effectively an endless horde.

[namida]

I'm not sure how I feel about including them in the panel's count.

Alternative proposal: A count is displayed with the hatch similar to what would happen if the hatch had a limited lemming count.

Follow-on: ...that could simply happen for all hatches, rather than only zombie ones.

[Strato Incendus]

I don't think numbers would be required for regular lemmings, since those are always divided equally among all hatches, unless there is one with a limited count, in which case that number is subtracted from the overall number of lemmings available.

Neutrals are already being factored into the count on the panel, if I recall correctly? I remember the count number changes its colour in that case.

The problem with zombies is more that the player doesn't know the total number of Zombies on a level in the first place...

[WillLem]

The problem with zombies is more that the player doesn't know the total number of Zombies on a level in the first place...

I think it should stay that way to be honest. It can get to the point where a level is giving you too much information, and it's exhausting before you've even started playing it.

Besides, zombies are meant to be an enemy of sorts: I think it adds to the atmosphere if the player doesn't know from the beginning how many there are going to be.

[Strato Incendus]

Yeah, that logic isn't going to fly with our puzzle friends...

My main argument against simply adding count numbers to every hatch (meaning including non-limited-number hatches for regular lemmings) is honestly also just an aesthetic one - I like the way regular hatches look, and I would disapprove of this becoming another standard change that would make NeoLemmix look even more different from regular original Lemmings.

But mechanically, of course namida's proposal to indeed add numbers to all hatches would indeed be the most straightforward one... and also, once implemented, this probably wouldn't be optional, because the wish to switch off count displays for a given hatch would most likely be seen by the majority of the community as willfully disguising information from the player.

[WillLem]

You're probably right there.

Well, I think that if numbers-always-over-all-hatches gets implemented as well as everything else, I'd definitely want to see availability of options in the player to turn such features off.

I don't even think it would make the F3 screen that much bigger, either.

N.B. This image is a modified screenshot of the current F3 menu, to mockup what it could look like with the various options implemented (note that I've also included the Wrap feature option in case that gets implemented as well) :



In effect, if you had all Helper Options disabled, and no hotkeys for Direction Select, CPM or Frameskipping, that would essentially be the "Classic Mode" I've talked about previously. Whilst I probably wouldn't play NeoLemmix like that very often, it would be good to know the option is there.

[Strato Incendus]

"Enable Infinite Scrolling For Wrap Levels"? That's a thing that still exists?

[WillLem]

"Enable Infinite Scrolling For Wrap Levels"? That's a thing that still exists?

It may be re-implemented. Namida's revived this topic about possibly bringing it back.

The above image is a modified screenshot I made to demonstrate that, even by adding all of the various options I've talked about previously, it doesn't make the F3 menu that much bigger.

It's confused a couple of people so I've now modified the post to make it clear that it isn't an actual screenshot.

[namida]

Implemented, for V12.11.X, in commit 274cfde. Specifically, for zombie hatches only, the remaining lemming count is always displayed even if it doesn't have a set lemming limit.

because the wish to switch off count displays for a given hatch would most likely be seen by the majority of the community as willfully disguising information from the player.

If it's a user-side option, that's the player choosing to hide information from themself. While I'm not going to go out of my way to support that, the objection to it is far weaker than the objection to content designers hiding info from players.