[NeoLemmix] Skills you can't live without

[Proxima]

I solved 13 and eliminated swimmers, and WillLem has gotten the remaining skills down to 3 of each. I am far from confident this is the final result, but don't feel like looking at it any more tonight, after spending a long time getting most of the talismans in this rank.

[namida]

Here's seperate eliminations for Bashers and Fencers on Tricksy 13. I still haven't had much of a look at Platformers and Builders yet.

[Proxima]

Some activity on the Pandemonium rank in discord tonight:

1 "Lemmina City Steel Facility" - No result
2 "Milkshake Party" - 5 walkers, 1 shimmier, 1 climber, 1 glider, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 digger, 1 cloner
3 "Nightmare on Lem Street III" - No result
4 "Lemgate" - No result
5 "The Cherry Cola Conundrum" - 1 basher, 1 digger
6 "L-Pop" - None
7 "Falling Forever Part II" - 2 climbers, 1 floater, 1 glider, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 stacker, 1 cloner
8 "Staircase To Nowhere III" - 11 walkers, 3 builders, 5 stackers
9 "With a Twist of Lemmina Please" - 3 walkers, 1 climber, 1 glider, 2 blockers, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 2 cloners
10 "I'll Just Wait Here, Shall I?" - 1 walker, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 cloner
11 "Mary Poppins' Land II" - 7 platformers, 1 builder
12 "Erm..." - No result
13 "Constellations II" - No result
14 "Save Us!" - 14 stackers
15 "Nothing is Impossible" - 7 builders, 1 basher, 8 diggers
16 "Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II" - None

[WillLem]

Here's seperate eliminations for Bashers and Fencers on Tricksy 13. I still haven't had much of a look at Platformers and Builders yet.

Genuinely love these solutions - excellent work!

[nin10doadict]

I can solve Milkshake Party with 5 walkers of the 8 given, plus everything else, so:
5 walkers, 1 each of shimmier, climber, glider, platformer, builder, stacker, fencer, digger, cloner.

[Proxima]

* Milkshake Party, no platformer (essentially the same solution works for no builder; the platformer will stop just before the screen edge)
* Staircase to Nowhere, 11 walkers

[namida]

And, I took a look at Builders and Platformers on Tricksy 13 now. I'm pretty sure this is optimal for both - 1 of each.

My reasoning

0 Builders won't happen, because you can't grab the Swimmer pickup skill without one. I think it would be possible to if you had a miner or digger, but you don't. Maybe there's some really precise setup where you can use a platformer from the top to hit the right glide, but I'm pretty sure that firstly that'd use far too many destructive skills, and secondly that you can't save a platformer anywhere else to spare here anyway. As for "what if you don't get the pickup at all?" - while getting the pickup only takes one extra builder, not getting it takes at least two - three if you use a floater rather than a glider to grab it. When using the three-builder version you can offset this with one saved builder elsewhere, but that still leaves you needing more than 8 total.

Platformers are less obvious. There's no single point at which you specifically must use a platformer, but at least in my approach, you need either two builders or one platformer at the start; plus two builders or one platformer at the end. You also need six builders inbetween these two points. Since you only have 8 builders total, one platformer must be used, even though there's no specific spot that requires specifically a platformer - it's purely a "total available constructive skills" thing. If the level gave 10 builders instead of 8, it would be possible to solve without platformers.

[Minim]

I thought I might download Lemminas again and have a go at these too.

I'm pleased to announce that Lemminas' largest level, Pandemonium 16 (Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II) can be confirmed as None. The quantity of Cloner Pickups and the save requirement are a big giveaway here. Another big giveaway can be seen in my no disarmers replay to save the cloners. I did forget to attach the replay for no stacker/no basher, but hey, this is so easy to work round right?

This just leaves 1, 3, 4, 12, and 13. I've looked at WillLem's solutions from the download and have recorded his results. Here they are for reference.

1: 1 glider, 5 platformers, 3 bashers, 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 cloner, 1 digger
3: 2 diggers, 2 climbers, 2 floaters, 4 builders, 2 miners, 4 bashers, 4 platformers, 4 walkers, 4 fencers.
4: 2 basher, 2 fencer, 1 stacker, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 3 walkers, 1 miner, 1 digger.
12: 1 miner, 1 basher, 2 fencers, 1 builder, 2 walkers, 1 stacker
13: 19 builders, 2 climbers, 2 gliders, 10 platformers, 4 stackers, 4 bashers, 5 walkers.

[WillLem]

I had a look at Nightmare On Lem Street III this evening. I've eliminated everything except 1 Floater and 1 Builder (see attached replays). This level hasn't been very popular so far, but it was great to SYCLW, and it's still one of my pack favourites!

Anyways, it seems that the results for Pandemonium so far are these:

1 "Lemmina City Steel Facility" - 1 glider, 5 platformers, 3 bashers, 1 climber, 4 builders, 1 cloner, 1 digger
2 "Milkshake Party" - 5 walkers, 1 shimmier, 1 climber, 1 glider, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 digger, 1 cloner
3 "Nightmare on Lem Street III" - 1 floater, 1 builder
4 "Lemgate" - 2 basher, 2 fencer, 1 stacker, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 3 walkers, 1 miner, 1 digger
5 "The Cherry Cola Conundrum" - 1 basher, 1 digger
6 "L-Pop" - None
7 "Falling Forever Part II" - 2 climbers, 1 floater, 1 glider, 1 platformer, 1 builder, 1 stacker, 1 cloner
8 "Staircase To Nowhere III" - 11 walkers, 3 builders, 5 stackers
9 "With a Twist of Lemmina Please" - 3 walkers, 1 climber, 1 glider, 2 blockers, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 2 cloners
10 "I'll Just Wait Here, Shall I?" - 1 walker, 3 platformers, 1 stacker, 1 fencer, 1 cloner
11 "Mary Poppins' Land II" - 7 platformers, 1 builder
12 "Erm..." - 1 miner, 1 basher, 2 fencers, 1 builder, 2 walkers, 1 stacker
13 "Constellations II" - 19 builders, 2 climbers, 2 gliders, 10 platformers, 4 stackers, 4 bashers, 5 walkers
14 "Save Us!" - 14 stackers
15 "Nothing is Impossible" - 7 builders, 1 basher, 8 diggers
16 "Rendezvous at the Mountain Part II" - None

I'm pretty happy to call most of these for now; I'll have another look at 13 tomorrow evening because that one seems to be another troublesome one that people don't like, and those results are almost certainly improvable.

Massive thanks again to everyone who's contributed to these so far.

[Minim]

I had a look at Nightmare On Lem Street III this evening. I've eliminated everything except 1 Floater and 1 Builder (see attached replays). This level hasn't been very popular so far, but it was great to SYCLW, and it's still one of my pack favourites!

Darn. I did this earlier this morning and forgot to check the forum. I've ended up with the same result too. Your Gold Talisman replay certainly came in handy.

12 "Erm..." - 1 miner, 1 basher, 2 fencers, 1 builder, 2 walkers, 1 stacker
13 "Constellations II" - 19 builders, 2 climbers, 2 gliders, 10 platformers, 4 stackers, 4 bashers, 5 walkers

I made improvements to both these levels. My results are below. My zip compressor program expired so I'll just put up my best ones. At least I was able to get the talisman replays. Still, I'll need to find another one, probably PeaZip or something like that.

12: 1 miner, 1 fencer, 1 builder, 1 walker.
13: 8 builders, 1 stacker, 2 bashers.

1 walker replay attached for 12.

Spoiler

The initial miner can start as far back as 5 frames from its initial position, so that the exit can still be reached with a builder but also decrease the stretch of the stacker on the bottom right corner, saving the basher. I initially couldn't find a no stacker solution, until I realised something obvious in WillLem's replay that this one was used to stop the miner halfway across the large wall. I simply swapped it with a walker.

Several replays for 13, including a no platformer solution. 8) I've had no luck on levels 1 and 4 I'm afraid.

[WillLem]

Thanks for these results, Minim. I'm quite happy to go ahead and post what we have so far on the Lemminas Records page. Of course, if anyone finds any improvements in the meantime I'll be sure to add them in.

My zip compressor program expired so I'll just put up my best ones. At least I was able to get the talisman replays. Still, I'll need to find another one, probably PeaZip or something like that.

I recommend 7Zip, that one seems to be the most user-friendly of the bunch and allows you to extract directly from context menu to basically wherever you want.

[WillLem]

Totals for Pandemonium: 27 Builders, 25 Stackers, 19 Platformers, 14 Walkers, 12 Diggers, 9 Bashers, 6 Cloners, 6 Fencers, 5 Climbers, 4 Gliders, 3 Blockers, 2 Miners, 2 Floaters, 1 Shimmier

I've also posted some interesting statistics regarding the SYCLW here!

[Proxima]

Why the hurry? You knew I was still working on this. I'm sorry I couldn't finish the rank at your pace, but I do have a life outside Lemmings

I've got Lemgate down to 1 walker, 1 builder, 1 stacker, which is a result I'm happy with. The builder is obviously necessary; the other two very likely are but it's not absolutely certain.

As for the rest: Haven't solved 1 yet. 3 is clearly unimprovable. I looked at 12 without finding anything. On 13, the bashers are obviously necessary since you don't start with enough skills to avoid the pickups. I was able to eliminate the stacker. Optimising builders remains to be done; I'll save this for another day.

[WillLem]

I've got Lemgate down to 1 walker, 1 builder, 1 stacker, which is a result I'm happy with.

Nicely done! Some very clever solutions here. I've updated the records accordingly (including 0 Stackers for 13).

I wanted to upload the records as they were yesterday simply because I had some time to do so. I expect further improvements will happen, I don't think any set of SYCLW results is "final!"

[Minim]

My zip compressor program expired so I'll just put up my best ones. At least I was able to get the talisman replays. Still, I'll need to find another one, probably PeaZip or something like that.

I recommend 7Zip, that one seems to be the most user-friendly of the bunch and allows you to extract directly from context menu to basically wherever you want.

Thanks for the help, but I found PeaZip. It might be slow, but at least it gets the job done for me. I might look into 7ZIP if PeaZip starts letting me down.

Meanwhile, WillLem and I started on MiniLems/Taxing:

1 "Watch out, there's traps about" - 1 builder
2 "Heaven can wait (we hope!!!!)" - 4 builders, 1 digger
3 "Lend a helping hand...." - 7 builders
4 "Compression Method 1" - 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 basher
5 "The ascending pillar scenario" - 6 builders
6 "Livin' On The Edge" - 5 builders, 1 basher

It's possible that 5 and 6 in particular may be improvable.

Good start. Great job getting Taxing 2 down to 4 builders! Containing the crowd without builders and blockers is always tricky.
I've done all of Taxing before I saw this post, and am currently working through the whole of Mayhem. I have improved Taxing 5 to 5 builders. Replay attached in the bundle containing all the other harder (or longer) challenges. 6 is very annoying indeed, particularly for no bashers so try avoiding improvements to that one.

Here are the rest of my results:

7: 1 builder, 1 basher
8: 7 builders
9: 5 builders
10: 7 builders, 2 bashers
11: 16 builders
12: 15 builders
13: 4 builders
14: 6 builders
15: 2 bombers, 6 builders
16: 5 floaters, 5 builders

Because 11 is so long and involves switches, I can't be bothered improving the builder count here. The 16-builder result is in my 0 digger solution. I thought it would be best to try eliminating the other skills first (or at least get everything down to 1, if not, a single digit) before uploading them. 16 is also likely to be improvable.