Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)

[mobius]

I don't plan on having a lot of discussion about this project. My reason is simple: my experience making this pack in the first place was honestly not great. Similar (but not as severe) as to the reasons why Nepster quit working on NeoLemmix and left the community. And that's why I avoided updating this for so long. So I'm sorry but this is how it is.

I'm removing so many levels for a number of reasons.
1) more levels = more work. Even with all these levels removed; this is still a massive pack.
2) Some levels were selected for this pack for reasons I didn't agree with like to make a nice round 30 levels in each rank or to get more levels of some particular graphic set. It meant levels of lesser quality or levels that frankly not a lot of people really cared for made it into the pack while others that might've been better didn't.
3) The first rank will still have plenty of easy levels; including some "fun" 10 or 20 of each. Besides we now have the NeoLemmix introduction pack which didn't exist before.
4) Except for a few most of the easy repeats weren't all that great 'fun' levels anyway. I had a real hard time actually looking for levels to make 'easy' cause most of them when given even 10 or 5 of each skill just became so trivial that weren't even fun in that way.

You're welcome to convert the special graphics levels. I have no timeline in place but since I'm currently working on updating InsaneSteve's world; it'll likely be a few months away at the minimum.

If I had the time and ability (not sure if Cheapo even will work on my current PC) I'd like to go through and gather and recreate more Cheapo levels to add to the pack. Because there's still lots there that deserve preservation. I might actually make that a separate project later, idk yet.

[mobius]

oh yeah; there's another reason I've been putting this off. Dealing with NeoLemmix errors and updating. I'm frankly getting really irritated with constantly having issues. Over the past couple of years every single time I go to play a pack or edit one of my own packs I always have issues. I'm tired of spending most of the time figuring out why it's not working instead of playing the game. And waiting doesn't help because the game keeps getting updated and then while one issue may get fixed a different new one pops up. There are too many styles. Too many to keep track of; too many if it takes a freaking hour to download them all or the game can't even download them all without crashing.

I'm sorry for venting but I'm honestly not feeling very motivated to update this or ISteve's pack or any pack I've worked on because of this.

[WillLem]

Don't lose heart, mobius

One idea may be to choose only your personal favourite levels from the pack and make a mini-pack of, say, 60 levels (10 in each rank). This would obviously be a lot easier to compile and maintain, and could even be given a new title to differentiate it from ROTL.

Either that or tag team development of the pack with someone who has more time/patience for the fiddly update stuff. I'd be happy to offer to help wherever I can; hopefully I'll have a bit more time for Lemmings stuff as the weather gets colder and I start increasing my laptop time again over the winter.

Keep up the good work.

[mobius]

I was in a bad mood when I made my previous post and things have since gotten better. For the record I will be updating ISteve's pack and I do *at least plan* to attempt to update this pack.

[mobius]

Ok after looking over some old files and stuff on the forum I forgot about how many levels I enjoyed playing when testing this pack; and levels I wanted to include but didn't for various reasons. So long story short; I definitely am working on this again and have major updates planned but it's probably going to take a while.

[WillLem]

I definitely am working on this again and have major updates planned but it's probably going to take a while.

Good to know, mobius. Glad you're feeling better about it again!

Take your time with the pack, it's good to get it right and feel happy about it

[mobius]

note: I do fully plan to look over this entire thread and gather the comments and replays found here, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Here are a few levels to test. The first level is solvable albeit a slightly different way than intended [as seen from Yawg's youtube channel]. I thought this was still decently difficult

Spoiler

I use a relatively advanced trick in my solution.

Second one I solved as Yawg did.

[Turrican]

Here are my solutions for these two levels.

Very nice levels! I found their time limits to be a little tight , but probably this is a part of their puzzles.

[mobius]

thanks!

the first one; yes the time limit is supposed to be a problem. The second not so much; I might eliminate that, if I include it that is..

[mobius]

Here's more levels to test.

[Turrican]

Here are my solutions fot these levels. My solution for "The Necromancer" is very probably a backroute.

Also , may I suggest some levels , that could be added to the pack ?

[mobius]

Thanks so much for testing/helping here btw!

And just so this is clear; I'm not saying all of these levels I post here (or if I post any on discord) will absolutely get added to the pack. Some of them definitely will though.

-Food-- intended! [only minor difference at the top section]
-Beastial-- is a bit different; I'd like to hear your thoughts on the level/solution/difficulty?
-Niche - shucks I wanted to have a talisman on this level of "use 10 or fewer builders" but there's getting to be quite a few solutions (and of somewhat easier variety?); not sure. I attached a variant with only 10 to test. I found this one myself without trying all that hard, though I remembered the general gist of the level

Spoiler

Yawg's solution extends the basher and miner both.

-Necromancer--ah yes, major backroute... these types of levels always have that backroute don't they? I'll have to think about this one; may just end up scrapping it.


Two more levels attached for testing.

Also , may I suggest some levels , that could be added to the pack ?

Certainly. Just a few things to keep in mind;
-This pack was and still is focused on old levels; that is; basically anything around 2012 or earlier. Basically one of the points of this was to finish the project that had actually started (but never finished) on this forum before I even joined, and to highlight the levels people were making at that time. There have a been a few exceptions (like the 2013 contests and such).
-If you have a *lot* of suggestions I likely won't include most of them as I already have quite a few of my own (but I'm not certain how many of those will make it in either).
-I may bring a few levels back which had been eliminated from the first Lemmini version of this pack as well, as looking back some of those weren't all that bad.

---------

does anybody have a copy of a [LVL/Lemmix] level by Ellischant titled "Life as a Worm"?

EDIT:
attached one more I edited just tonight; Paitence Young Grasshopper; an existing level plagued by backroutes which I've modified a bit. Really curious about this one.

also none of these levels so far are the ones I've mentioned on discord which kaywhyn and armani responded to me about; that's a different matter altogether.

[mobius]

I welcome the suggestion of some levels from Cheapo. Let me know if you remember a specific level or author who made levels there, whether a whole pack or what-have-you. I'm looking through these now, I may have questions about some of those later. Keep in mind some Cheapo levels aren't compatible with NL [upside-down gravity for instance]

[Armani]

Here're some promised replays and feedbacks.

A Timeless Masterpiece is a nice time cruncher where the tight time limit is the main obstacle to overcome. I got a builder to spare which is I'm not sure where it was meant to be used.
My solution on Beastial Oblivion feels a bit hackish. But I don't think there's any other way to stop the crowd going to the right other than repetitively assinging diggers.
Food For The Gods is also a decent puzzle, not particularly hard but not very easy either.
Icy Tombs is probably the hardest and my favorite levels from this batch. I've tried both left exit-solution and right-exit solution, and they are both proven to be possible to reach. I think right-exit solution is a lot harder though.
I'm not sure if my solution to More Time to Kill is intended. There's a small hole in the terrain under the exit. So I was able to stop the basher without using any builder by assigning miner to the hole so the miner stops at the hole.
I attached two replays for Patience, Young Grasshopper. First one seems promising while second one feels not intended.
Also attached two replays for The Journey of Lem. Both of them are similar but the second solution spares a miner.

Nothing to say about Niche and The Necromancer coz I'm pretty sure I've backrouted them.

[mobius]

timeless masterpiece is same solution as mine. A small variation is also possible.

I agree on Beastial Oblivion.

Spoiler

If you look closely you can see the steel in the center is raised and digging there allows you to hold in the crowd easier (only 2 escape).

That's the intended solution. Overall though the solution isn't all that different. I'm unsure about this one; leaning toward abandoning it.

nice solutions to Icy Tombs; I didn't know the right path was possible. I supposed I could enforce the right path (or just make it harder overall) by adding a trap on the left path, or is it fine as is?

Not sure what to think of Niche atm; it has many solutions, none of them are "easy" but many of them aren't totally like the intended. Your solutions seems so simple idk why nobody thought of that until now....

Journey: both of those are interesting imo

Patience grasshopper; gotta say that second solution (while clearly not intended cause in the original the steel area would've extended through the "terrain"] is pretty creative. I'll need to think more about this one and Niche.

I'm probably going to ditch The Necromancer.

I attached a quick fix to More Time To Kill [oh yeah that trap was there in the original but it was nastily hidden behind the exit... knew it was there for a reason...]

Food for the Gods is also intended.

I'll have more levels to test later.