Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)

[Proxima]

Feedback and replays through the end of Carnage. Since Carnage 30 "I am I.S." is the wrong level (the RotL level is called "I am I.S. Part 2" in Insane Steve's World), I've attached my replay for that level separately.

Unsolved levels: 9 "Training Zone Omega", 11 "A sea of purest green", 27 "Finding a place to stay" and 29 "Recurrent Sacrifice". The first three clearly belong in Armageddon, and I don't feel like tackling 29 at the end of a really long solving session.

[Crane]

Got some talismans for you!  Most of them have been restored from the previous version of Revenge of the Lemmings

- The Shaft (Picnic 30): Silver - save everyone.
- Crystal Caves (Hootenanny 8): Gold - only use 4 Miners.
- MORE WEE CREATURES (Hootenanny 16): Gold - no bombers.
- Works on so many levels... (Hootenanny 24): Gold - no diggers.
- The Texas Lemming Massacre... (Devious 12): Bronze - save everyone.
- The One Way Block (Devious 21): Bronze - only use one of each skill.

[Crane]

- About to Break (Frenzy 27): Silver - no climbers.
- Ups and Downs (Picnic 7): Bronze - save everyone using only miners

Also I've revamped "Ups and Downs" to match its repeat, "The Endless Steps" (a 4th trapdoor was added).  I've included the level to fix the music track and add a time limit (since thats a theme in Revenge of the Lemmings).  Originally I included a talisman to use only Bombers, but given that the only other skill are Climbers, I don't think it warrants it.

"Clonic Inferno" is more experimental (and doesn't include a talisman), but I've enforced my specific solution and want to see how it plays out in general.

I've also added an update to "Blast Furnace" - rescue requirement increased from 64 to 72 and the climbers have been removed in order to patch namida's backroute as well as my own take on it.  There was a talisman that tasked you to save 75 lemmings, but if you play the level properly, this should be easy enough to accomplish and so I don't feel it warrants a talisman. SEE BELOW FOR THE LATEST VERSION

UPDATE: Fixed Ups and Downs... also forgot part of the achievement.

[Crane]

Mostly for Proxima's benefit, here is what I think is the intended solution to Clockwork Pink (Pain 15) - this level was a little bit harder when you couldn't bomb lemmings that were standing on steel.

Also, here's a fixed version of Herculems, and a version of "Hey, that's not cool guys" with a deadly ceiling fix.

[Crane]

Another backroute fix to Blast Furnace - it's meant to be a more involved level than first impressions might imply.

Sometimes I just hate Builders!

Since Blast Furnace may now be too hard for Devious, here's the latest version of Deep Freeze as a candidate for Devious 30... if it works as a rank finisher.

[Crane]

A deadly ceiling fix for the two versions of The Shaft.

[jkapp76]

What's the best download for a working version of this pack for NL?

[WillLem]

What's the best download for a working version of this pack for NL?

The zip link in the OP is the most recent version of this pack for current formats NeoLemmix, AFAIK.

[Proxima]

I am still, at least nominally, in charge of finishing the conversion. I'm sorry that it's taken so long; life is really hard at the moment (I'm sure people will understand that, as the last two years have been hard for everyone) and I am also involved with a huge DROD levelset project. But I do hope to return to finish this off, I just can't make any promises about when that will be.

If anyone else wants to step up and take over, I would be happy to discuss that with them, and I believe mobius is the pack "owner" and has the final say in who should be appointed.

[mobius]

I am still, at least nominally, in charge of finishing the conversion. I'm sorry that it's taken so long; life is really hard at the moment (I'm sure people will understand that, as the last two years have been hard for everyone) and I am also involved with a huge DROD levelset project. But I do hope to return to finish this off, I just can't make any promises about when that will be.

If anyone else wants to step up and take over, I would be happy to discuss that with them, and I believe mobius is the pack "owner" and has the final say in who should be appointed.

while I don't like the term "owner" (everybody who contributed owns it ), I am the one who did most of the work for the original version of this pack and so I've contemplated updating this pack; but not without making some major changes, which I'm sure some people won't approve of; like removing all of Clam and Steve's levels (because they already exist (in currently more updated form) in their own packs), and cutting down on the huge size of the pack.

Also don't really know how motivated I am or if I have to time to go through this thread and see what's been done.

Another idea I had is to just make a new pack from scratch compiling some of these levels used here. I'm not sure if I will do any of this, just thinking about it.

[jkapp76]

I like the sound of all this personally.

I am fine with playing steve's levels and clam's in their own packs, and that's probably better. I really liked this pack on Superlemmini.

[mobius]

After removing all levels by Clam, ISteve and Martin Z (his levels also present in "MazuLems" all three of these levelpacks downloadable and up-to-date here on the NeoLemmix levelpacks area "Clammings", "Insane Steve's World" accordingly.) there are still around 120 levels altogether. I also got rid of all of the "easy" versions of levels I made, adaptations of existing levels, to be repeated later and the "tutorial levels". That left so few levels in rank one I'll remove that rank altogether and merge the remaining levels. Each rank now has about 20-25 levels on average so I might remove another rank and merge more levels but I'm not sure about this.

[mobius]

Open to suggestions about whether to aim for 6 ranks of 20-25(ish) levels or 5 ranks of 30+(ish) levels.

Also open to suggestions for the names of ranks. Since "picnic" is being removed; should "Hootenanny" be rank 1? I'm open to better name/title suggestions for that as well.

Before there were a decent number of levels (can't remember how many exactly but at least a handful) that I had wanted to include but didn't because the pack would be too big. I might add some of those (if I can remember/find any of them). Suggestions here are also welcome. Note that I don't plan on adding too many levels though, probably not more than a handful.

the extra rank is also getting merged so that will be gone. Levels by BulletRide and Dodochacalo here are not present in their own packs that's why I don't plan on removed any of those.

Some decisions I made on this pack originally I now think were not great like "fixing" levels such as "Patience Young Grasshopper". This level was modified heavily from it's original state and it was never known exactly what the intended solution of that level is and likely never will. Should levels like this be removed?

I will likely not include any special graphics levels as it's simply too much of a hassle to update those.

[jkapp76]

I like keeping all 5 rank names, keeps the memories better. Maybe adding a few levels will help to have enough levels so it doesnt't seem out of balance.
I'd recommend removing as little as possible, even if the levels were heavily modded.
I'm excited for the pack to be ready.

[Proxima]

It's really impossible to answer that without having a full list of levels, so we can see both how many are on the current list and whether there are any more we feel could or should be removed. I personally would prefer to go with round numbers, so if we have, for example, 174 levels, then finding one more and doing 5 x 35 appeals more than doing 6 x 29.

I am not sure why you are suggesting removing the easy repeats. It's true that RotL is a "best of" the community's efforts from the early days, and the easy repeats aren't authentic products of those days in the same way as the other levels; but they make the pack feel more well-rounded and complete in itself. I'd like to at least have some community discussion about this.

I think it's okay to fix some levels, but it's true that some will be unfixable. I think this is the kind of thing that needs in-depth discussion for each level. I know this is where the amount of work involved really starts to pile up, but as I've said, I'm happy to help out as much as I can, so long as people don't expect anything to be finished very soon. I should have a bit more time and energy once my move is finished.

I must strongly protest against the idea of dropping special graphics levels. As I said, I'm happy to help out with the work involved. Cheapo supported special graphics, so those levels are an authentic part of the community scene this pack aims to snapshot. And several of those levels are mine, so this would severely impact my representation in the pack. That doesn't seem fair at all.