Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)

[mobius]

some more levels to test

[bat country is a fix of an old level, the rest are new]

[mobius]

some more levels to test.

note; these are all levels I've tested myself to be at least solvable under current NL mechanics. They need to be tested for backroutes.
I haven't gotten around to gathering the "questionable" levels I've talked about on discord yet; those which have bad backroutes or I'm unsure if they're solvable. TBH not sure if I'm going to bother with those at all yet at this point.
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Forgot to note any kind of difficulty with any of these. The past few batches I uploaded were probably med-hard. These here, some of them at least may be very difficult.
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geoo's levels (Crossing Stairs, Twice the Same and Increasing step heights) have some minor adjustments to them to account for differences in NL mechanics. Well, Twice the Same is actually quite a bit different while looking almost the same. The solution that is; interestingly, far fewer builders are needed despite not needing any glitches, but I also have the save requirement 1 less.

[Turrican]

I have tried some of these levels today , so here are the replays of my solutions.

Very nice levels! Most of these , I had also played them in Lemmix , at the past.

I think , most of these , would be nice for the later ranks of the pack.

[mobius]

nice job on those levels;
-Crossing Stairs; I think this works well as kind of "anything goes" type of level while still being pretty hard. Especially for new players unfamiliar with some of these tricks.
my solution used a floater and saved 1 or maybe 2 bashers
-Increasing Step Heights; nice one, very similar to one (of the 2 major solutions I know of) solution here.
-nnit2Winnit; same as mine. this one's much easier; I'm thinking early; maybe even first rank. I should put this comments on the forum instead
-House of the Lost Staircase - brilliant solution, clearly intended. That is really well hidden imo. I will definitely have to patch out the backroute on this one.
Twice the same -- wow I didn't see some far easier solutions to this level. And the bomber should be removed.
Thinking now; I can think of a way to save 7 but not sure if it's possible; would require some crazy timing. Hey! maybe good place for a talisman

I did kind of want to make talismans for this pack.

[Armani]

I've played rest of the levels

comments on some levels
iirc, bulletride's Lets Get To The Bottom Of This! got some fixes and it's now very different from the one you attached. You can see the latest version in the Lemmings Stampede level pack topic.
I solved both versions of Niche, and I extend both the basher and the miner in one of them. It feels somewhat intended. I only used 7 builders though.
Oh, the possibilities... is interesting disjoint union level. But I think it's pretty easy to completely rule out saving both second and third crowd. It's just too expensive to save them which makes the level somewhat obvious.
The Theft is the hardest and my favorite level from this batch.
I might have backrouted The house of the lost staircase. But I can see the how intended solution looks like; bouncing off the miner several times with some blockers on the builder staircase like zemming level in dovelem.

[mobius]

thanks for the replays and comments.

I forgot to scrap "Let's get to the bottom of this" because it's present in Lemmings Stampede. [still must look through that levelpack to double check everything]

notable replays;

Bat Country: interesting trick to turn the builder around! My solution was having the blocker there and another method to save the crowd on the upper left. Either solution makes this more difficult than it was before I think, which was the point. Any thoughts on the difficulty here? Of this one and also "Patience Young Grasshopper"?

Crossing stairs; mmm interesting solution, makes it quite a bit easier; but idk about calling this a 'backroute' since three people so far haven't thought to try this [the method of stopping the bashers]; I wouldn't know how to remove it anyway. I think it'll be fine as is.

Niche; still unsure what to do about this atm. There's leaving it open to more possibilities which I'm very tempted to do. But some of these solutions seem too easy(?) so I'm also tempted to meddle with it more.

To Each his own; your backroute is easily fixable... But I just found another that is not. Nevermind; I just fixed it (maybe).
[I have yet to find a solution that gets each lemming to every exit; but I do have two different solutions that gets to all exits but one. Trying to get to every exit may be clever red herring]

-House of Lost Staircase; I'm aware of this backroute unfortunately, not sure atm the how to fix that. The "intended" solution blew me away at first, cause I didn't see it at all.

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I realized a possible fix for both levels; Desperate Measures and Necromancer, but still debating whether to even include either of these. That is; move the entrance closer to the edge of the starting platform so there is only one or so pixels for the lems to walk on. These levels are both kind of similar...

[mobius]

I found I think a clever "fix" for Niche. See what you guys think. I think there are simply too many simple solutions to it otherwise.

Added some other levels; Tilt is on the easier but stumped me a bit for while (because misdirection?)

Locked n Loaded: warning; I have not solved this level! I don't know if it's possible; but it really should be. Ben Bryant's Cheapo pack, where this came from, is mostly or all legit levels rarely if ever requiring unusual or Cheapo specific tricks or hidden/unfair traps. And his levels often are pure logic puzzles too (my personal favorite kind)

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the "mysterious levels" are the levels I mention to a few people on discord; that fall under two categories; 1) I haven't solved or know of a solution, hence not sure *if* they are solvable (but evidence indicates they are, else I wouldn't be brining them up in the first place) or 2) are backrouted severely. In either case I don't know the intended solution but would like anybody's feedback/discussion on them.

BulletRide 1 & 2 : original had more decorative terrain on the left that was removed and removed a solution using only one worker. Can still save over the requirement and skills.

Vaccuum: change does almost nothing to change some core solutions except for building directly from the chains. What are all the blockers for?  Are the bars under exit supposed to play a part or is that just decoration?

Stranger Than Fiction: I don't know of a solution to the latter (5 builder) version at least for NeoLemmix. There is one for Lemmix but don't think it works here because you must use a walking digger next to a blocker to free him. The comment from Yawg was "the solution to this level is anything but normal"

Wall to Wall: easy backroute(?) by bashing/building into the starting staircase to trap the crowd in.

Compression Method X: can simply make a digger pit to trap them. What are so many builders for?

[Armani]

I've thought I already posted the replays but I didn't
Most of them seem to be backroutes.

- There's only 1 replay for Bullet Ride(Part1&2) and Stranger Than Fiction each. Since one replay solves both versions.
- OTOH, there are separate two replays for Vaccum ver1 and ver2
- Stranger Than Fiction and Stop, Drop and Blow are decent puzzles and quite difficult. I really enjoyed them.
- Finally my solution to niche seems good! I doubt right-most exit is possible to reach. But you never know..

Bat Country: interesting trick to turn the builder around! My solution was having the blocker there and another method to save the crowd on the upper left. Either solution makes this more difficult than it was before I think, which was the point. Any thoughts on the difficulty here? Of this one and also "Patience Young Grasshopper"?

Pretty hard I would say. More specifically they have [hard] difficulty from standardised difficulty scale we are using on Neolemmix pack board imo.

[mobius]

nice job on Niche. I have to make the final decision on this level.

Locked and Loaded; I have three backroutes including yours that I must remove. I found what I'm 95% sure is the intended or close to the intended solution; imo this is one of my favorite levels I've ever played actually.

tilt was intended.

Stop Drop and Blow; interesting different solution. [only possible of course because of instant bombers]

Farewell to Kings; backroute, because of the edit I had to make on the right pillar. I like this level; it's simple yet is a puzzle but originally utilizes climbers falling away from the wall; a glitch which does not happen on NL, but is not part of the solution...
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For the mysterious levels; I'm less interested in replays and more interested in discussion around the level; if there's anything that stands out to you, to try and figure out the intended solution, or just any ideas you might have. But I must say your solutions to Vaccuum and Stranger than friction were actually interesting and stimulating.

for Stranger Than Friction; at least this solution wasn't hackish. This is actually the sort of thing I was going for for a long time but for some reason couldn't figure that out. Looking at the replay though makes it look not all that difficult although there is some tight timing. Obviously there are skills leftover, something unlike Yawg to allow. How difficult would you say that was?

Wall to Wall: I got excited when you didn't pin them in at the start but then... eh

[Armani]

tilt was intended.

Oh wow, I was quite sure my solution is a cheecky backroute..

or Stranger Than Friction; at least this solution wasn't hackish. This is actually the sort of thing I was going for for a long time but for some reason couldn't figure that out. Looking at the replay though makes it look not all that difficult although there is some tight timing. Obviously there are skills leftover, something unlike Yawg to allow. How difficult would you say that was?

I really have no idea where the leftover basher(and a builder for the second version) are meant to be used. At least I think bombing the faller to destroy the OWW is intended. If I'm in charge of this project, I think I would just cut the leftover skills. The difficulty of this level is pretty high imo. You need to use chain terrain cleverly to go down safely and the falling bomber trick is not easy to see.

I also have no clue on how the intended solutions look like in Bullet Ride and Compression Method. For me, it seems like they just give player too many powerful skills.

I attached another solution to Wall to Wall. I think this is somewhat intended.

[mobius]

brilliant! thanks! Ugh I spent a decent amount of time on that one and couldn't see that; so clear in hindsight! Another well done puzzle imo.

Yeah Tilt does seem cheeky imo; took me a while to see that that was a possibility. [I kept trying to go up the left side and use the decoration to get up].

I think I can take at least those two levels [Wall to Wall and Stranger than Fiction] out of the "mysterious" category

I'm very glad I decided to put in the extra work to take this on again; turns out I've found a lot of good levels I didn't know about before. I'm feeling like this will be the best version of the pack yet.

[mobius]

A fix for Locked and Loaded, and another new Bryant level "Evacuation"
note; this is actually his level "Barricaded" which is a repeat of "Evactuation" the only difference is the save req. The harder solution is also possible in the first. I picked the title "Evacuation" cause I like it better; but I'm open to disagreement.

I found Conway remade a selection of his LemEdit levels in Cheapo and got to thinking there is only one of his many levels in the pack... [and it happens to be an excellently puzzling level]

"Conways_unsolved" are levels I have not solved [and cannot guarantee are solvable in their current state] Like the previous levels I posted; they almost certainty are, it's just a question of are they compatible with NeoLemmix.  To be clear; And I know I'm repeated myself; its just so I don't get yelled at (or when I do I can point to this post). All the levels I upload are solvable unless stated otherwise; like in this case right here.
3 are Lemmix conversions, the other is a Cheapo remake (and a combination of "A Real Breakthrough and 5,4,3,2,1 Uh Oh! BOP!" a level that some may remember was in the first version of ROTL

I've also *finally* gone through this entire thread and collected all the updates/levels/replays and notes on feedback.

I kept forgetting to say this but when discussing solutions to levels openly here; please use the spoiler tag. It's the nuclear symbol button on the middle-right.

[Armani]

attached my solutions

Spoiler

Something tells me that A Real Breakthrough is not solvable. I think it's solvable with non-deadly ceiling though. I attached a replay of my failed attempt which could have been successful if the trap at the bottom was located 1 pixel to the right.
It's clear that you have to build and catch the two climbers from the bottom in Can't Find Any Gaps. Not sure what all the leftover skills are for.
Evacuation is a pretty decent level. It reminds me of No justice for the hero from PSP Lemmings.
I attachedd two solutions to Let's split!. First one is a nasty backroute. Second solution uses both top and bottom exits and uses most of the skills. I assume the intended solution splits 50 lemmings to 20, 20, 10 to all 3 exits and somehow uses all 20climbers/20floaters/10miners but I can't figure out how.
I have quite a lot of leftover skill in Locked and Loaded but I think this solution still has some decent tricks in it.
Use your tools wisely is my favorite level from this batch. The turning around of the climber at the basher tunnel is tricky to see.

[mobius]

Use Your Tools: after reading your hint I immediately solved this level! [should've solved it sooner as I was trying things similar to this but gave up....] aaaaand I see where another of ISteve's levels was inspired from!

Lets Split:

Spoiler

oh I just realized the intended solution is to mine to turn around in the one way wall (which doesn't work in NL) which is why the Cheapo version has terrain and steel there instead...

Can't Find Any Gaps; I don't know either; I'll have to take a closer look at this one.

Breakthrough; Because Cheapo is so annoying to use I have yet to figure out if the gap between the entrance area and the right side platforms is supposed to be two or three bridges wide >_< >_< . But I can say that the ceiling in Cheapo is in fact safe, so I may make that adjustment (Depending on what the solution actually is.)

Spoiler

The two original levels; Breakthrough; is imo pretty easy you just bomb the 3 pillars then build through. The other; 5,4,3,2,1... is the 4 platforms you must block and squeeze the crowd through one of the traps.

But you have no blockers on this version... I'm really curious what your idea is how it's solvable without moving the traps but without deadly ceiling; if that's what you meant.
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ah, evacuation was a backroute I can fix easily. The left side obstacle blocking the crowd in was originally steel. In cheapo when a climber bashes into steel; he does not turn around. So that needs to be an obstacle that does not allow a climber to turn around.

awww what a backroute to Locked and Loaded... I have no idea how to fix this atm...

Spoiler

using my own 'eye of the needle' trick as well to add insult to injury. 

EDIT: and once again right after saying that I figure out a way to fix it. But I have several options....
version 3 has my fix plus cutting down the skills I don't use

Spoiler

while my solution is pretty intricate and puzzling I save a climber and only use one blocker

. so version 4 has these remaining skills; in case somebody can find an elegant way to use these.

Also attached these others also by Bryant I made a while back but forgot about. Still a few more of his to remake; almost all of his 20-30 level pack imo is excellent. [One is renamed because *yet again* it had similar title as another level]

[Armani]

But you have no blockers on this version... I'm really curious what your idea is how it's solvable without moving the traps but without deadly ceiling; if that's what you meant.

Ah yes this level could have been much easier with a blocker.
About this level under solid ceiling: It didn't work quite well as I expected; the solution is pretty fiddly and requires long waiting for the perfect timing. I attached both level(I fixed it so my solution could work.) and the replay anyway.

And for new levels:

Spoiler

Deadly Detour: I don't think my solution is exactly intended as I have some leftover skills. But avoiding exit by digging away the trigger area of the exit is clever I would say.
Evacuation: attached 3 solutions. First two solutions are probably backroutes. (You can block the first one by removing some rock terrain and second one by moving the thin terrain at the hatch area upward by 1 or 2 pixels) And finally the third solution feels very closed to intended. I used two worker lemmings and give climber&floater skills to two different lemmings and the solution looks clean.
Locked and Loaded: attached 2 solutions. First one is just a slight variation of my previous backroute. You can block it by adding wall trap to the second pillar as well. And the second solution looks cleaner but it still has some leftover skills.
Manifest: attached 2 solutions. They are basically similar the only difference is the place I contained the crowd.