Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 6.10.2024.

[ccexplore]

Im not sure how SNES version will register releaserates when im unpaused.

I believe release rate changes work the same way on SNES as in DOS (other than not possible to do while paused), and therefore should not be timing sensitive.  In DOS, it's like this:

1) A new lemming comes out, say it's the Nth lemming.
2) At the same time N is out, the game takes note of the current value of the release rate, call it R.
3) It saves a copy of the value R, and use that copy to track how long to wait before the next lemming (N+1) comes out.
4) If you now make changes to the release rate, say from R to S, it doesn't affect N+1 at all, because the game is using a copy of value R to track when to make N+1 come out, it doesn't look at new values of release rate (ie. S).  Instead S will affect N+2, because when N+1 does finally come out, we'll be at steps 2 and 3 again, and the game will then save a copy of the value S to track when N+2 comes out.

This is why I describe all the release rate changes as "change to value X after Yth lemming has come out".  The exact speed/timing of changing the release rate to X doesn't matter, as long as the target release rate value X is reached sometime after Y lemming and before Y+1 lemming.  The main problem is only that because SNES doesn't let you change release rate while paused, for very large changes, there may simply not be enough time between Y and Y+1 to finish making the change, making it impossible to do on SNES.

It's easy enough to test this on SNES emulator.  On a level that allows for a low release rate value (so you are given some decent amount of time to make release rate changes), once after you see a new lemming come out (N), try cranking up the release rate a bit.  You should find that the next lemming to come out (N+1) doesn't actually come out any faster compared to not having changed the release rate, only N+2 onwards are affected.  If you want to make N+1 come out sooner, you actually needed to change the release rate before N comes out, not after.

But you can only cancel miner using digger or builder on SNES version.

Yeah, I already tested this on SNES a while back when we were still on Fun.  I think it doesn't work because on SNES, the miner starts off not mining as deep as on DOS--on DOS the first stroke goes 2 pixels below ground level, but on SNES I think it only goes 1 pixel below.  So given the same number of completed mining strokes, SNES will always be one pixel less deep compared to DOS, and I think that's enough to prevent on SNES the miner canceling miner move used in the DOS solution.

Good job on finding the alternate placement of the basher for the staircase trick.   Testing shows it actually also works on DOS version doing it that way; I should've tested more thoroughly a while ago when we were looking at Fun 29/Mayhem 9, I was too focused at that time on the exact way it was done and working in the DOS solution.

[MASTER-88]

Back the Taxing 4 progress. Its really seems this setup make slide like DOS/lemmix version doesn´t work on SNES version. I find several troubles and i simply cannot improve it anymore. Just test out everythings and i´ll sure here is version differences.

I still got find alternate setup make this slide here, but rightnow its sadly ended still 16 skills.  I really want make 15 skills but this look i still need extra builder make this jumper effect. Its suck i have to look out it more later. Just spend whole 8 hours with this level a today. Mostly just try find working slide glitch on SNES version.

Taxing 4
SNES slide setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbIyHySdWbE

Otherwise DOS & Lemmix route working very well. But this sliding seems version different IMO. Its just doesn´t work like DOS setup. So wasting total over 12 hours time with this without luck. I think im not going wasting anymore time attempted this and i´ll just try find alternate way make slide. Sadly its take 3 more skills than DOS method and only make me tied my points/skills. SO that was pretty pointless rightnow. If i can slide 1 skill less its will be make new SNES record.

Taxing 4 ending look like same as DOS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_f1pCHxTH4

Be right back if i figured out something.

[MASTER-88]

Spending little bit analyze taxing 4. I´ll hope ccexplore try confirm this later with SNES emulator, because im not are TAS expert. Thats look its little basher version difference which make DOS/lemmix sliding setup impossible on SNES.  I tested it two different situation. One situation will build correct, but basher doesn´t break build brick, thats make 34 lemming jump effect impossible. 2nd setup will make basher break build brick like DOS, but then its let builder bit too low and its make 34 lemmings stuck middle of metal instead jumping.

I´ll hope we can modify it little bit. This quickly look like staircase clip fun 29 & mayhem 9. Its just requires little bit modify make it correctly on SNES, because this basher seems work just little bit different.

This sliding method i used yesterday is useless if you can,t make it any less skills. Its also really hard and messy. Im not exactly even know how i did it and i can´t consistent make this. I completed it total three times yesterday and make quick video when i got correct setup. Its look in radar jumper take this buld brick which requires jumping, its just really weird setup. Its also super hard setup and mostly luck and probably way too hard make on console conditions without tool assist. But at least its show we can use otherwise same solution as DOS/lemmix. Everythings else working very similar way.

We only need find way make correct sliding setup. If we cannot 13 skills on SNES. 14 & 15 skills both make record. So here is some leeway use some extra skills.

EDIT:
I have to test one little thing. Taxing 4 includes extra basher. If 2nd basher break 30 lemming builder and we can make jump effect, its might make 14 skills solution possible on SNES. I´ll test that later and look what will happen. Its will at least fix error about jump effect i think. I´ll be back.

EDIT:
Tested extra basher setup. Its give heights and jump effect, but jumper will stay one pixel too far to wall. So i´ll reject this setup.

[MASTER-88]

I´ll very thankfully if Ccexplore test Taxing 4 his SNES emulator. Then we really can analyze this level better. I personally suck TAS. I am more console player.

But that fact i have infinite patient and i never give up,. Sometimes i have to just keep break if il overloaded. I still never give up.

I love this game. When i got myocarditis auguast 2019 that was hell. Im spend nearly 3 weeks in hospital and close to die. I never give up.

[MASTER-88]

Taxing 4 15 skills 100% confirmed possible on Snes version. No any consistent idea how i did slide two lemmings up and without lock anyone. So its let me basher remain. It use 54 releaserate all time after 8 lemming come out.

Rightnow this not seems any realistic on console. But i have to make some research how i exactly make this.

At least this is confirmed now. I think slide glitch its not possible make any less builder on SNES.

[MASTER-88]

Okay here is new build slide setup taxing 4. Its could even one less than my previous record

This video use blocker help me watching better. Make three builders
1: Builder will cancel basher
2: Make seconds it upper right
3: Make last one with left and slide will starting.

Lemmings not even locking so we not need basher release otherones. I think if this could work on we can aim 14 skills on SNES.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX9FF-i62uw

However this is incredible difficult especially when huge groups lemmings run here and theres. So its will be really hard one. But this seems much cleaner than my previous setup.

14 skills confirmed emulator. I think i have pretty good solution rightnow and its might are possible make on console too.

[MASTER-88]

Here we go. Taxing 4 (14 skills) Snes solution finally completed on console. I am sure this DOS setup slide which use 13 skills doesn´t work on SNES version, its just not work, here is some level desingn difference and its make its simply impossible. So i have to make sliding very different way.  Luckily here is some leeway use extra skills with sliding, because hand trap route take 16 skills on SNES. So 14 skills is very good record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutP-dFfY-g

This alternate slide take me so long to find. This sliding setup is also very easy when you know how timed this.  Its just important start basher correct use 54 releaserate when 8 lemmings come out and thats it. Make extra builder to right and then just waiting Take final gap/sliding when lemming group look good. Using this setup i just wait when timer goes 5:35 and then take this build brick.

Im not think we can aim 13 skills on SNES, but if we can its have to be different way than DOS/lemmix.

[MASTER-88]

Some sliding attempts Sunsoft Special 5 (aka lemming ark). Sadly this route look so exotic, but no save more skills. So its pointelss yet.

I think if i can slide little bit more right im not need that miner at end. But make this route really working i have to also slide all 49/50 lemmings up and use only one climber. This time its requires use all 3 climber so its only cool looking route.

Probably we can modify this later. But making new point/skill record i have to make this slide and level 3 less skills. So its will be hard work or probably impossible. I´ll look it better.

Slide setup clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ti5aVen6k

LOL route completion clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgi6eDW3jtw

EDIT:
48/50 Slide. I think i can slide 49/50 if i start releaserate better. I just used 67 releaserate all time But how ever this distance will be trouble here. If i take digger any pixel behind then basher will break lemming group and then you can,t slide all lemmings up. In theory 10004 points and 7 skills solution could be possible, but its take some research.  Its pretty close. make jump bit earlier then i can avoid use miner saving jumping lemmings, but i not have idea how avoid basher break this group.

I´ll back this level later. Few things have to be fixed and 7 skills lemming ark solution could be possible. Because this is not are DOS level nobody probably never trying it any serious. 8 skills seems just best possible without glitches. 7 skills might be possible if i can slide better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSN9045aOJc

SKIP Last miner 47/50 jumps and basher break group little bit. You can also take both climbers correctly with this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gwc9xEWxgo

Next we have look can we make perfect slide 49/50 and last one use climber.

EDIT:
I think i did some good progress, but i cannot believe i´ll aim 7 skills solution in lemming ark level. Just few troubles which seems impossible make match. So this slide glitch solution seems just cool one, but totally pointless high scoring. Using slide route 9 skills is confirmed and probably 8 skills, but no chance make 7 skills match. So i think im not spend anymore time with this level rightnow.

[MASTER-88]

I got find one little glitch. But im not are find that useful yet, but its might working some levels. This example i used mayhem 3.

This is frame perfect trick you have to use miner and blocker and this if you make it with correct timing you can drop/zip one lemming down and its not break floor/bridge. Just might be useful if you have skip builder or something and zip one lemming down.
Example video clip (contains few failed attempts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrUYd3jSBuA

Sadly that not help me improve points mayhem 3. But there might are some other levels. Im not know working this other lemmings versions. This is used SNES version.

EDIT:
Tested other levels too. You can use that glitch everysingle level where you have miners & blocker. Sadly i´ll find this pointless make point records. But that was nice find. I´ll hope i can find some useful things using this glitch.

[MASTER-88]

Its so damn fucking close make mayhem 3 5 skills solution on SNES. This use miner blocker through glitch. But i´ll need few more frames times make it possible.

Mayhem 3 very close 5 skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE0tus4LqWQ

I read just time glitch (DOS glitch thread) Did this might work on SNES? I´ll need just few frames saving time make 5 skills solution possible. This is only spot where i can take miner and turn lemmings so i cannot make that any frames faster.

This level is just longer on SNES version. 5 more lemmings than DOS version and timer runner faster. This is way too close. Im not want give up that yet. I have to look which is this time glitch?

Pausing for time: The entrance hatch begins opening a specific length of time after the level starts, at the same time the sound effect plays. If you pause the game before the hatch begins to open, the timer stops counting down while the game is paused, but the hatch still opens at the same time (or immediately after you unpause, if you wait until after the sound plays). This gives you about two seconds extra to complete the level.

If this might work on SNES, its might enought save all.

LOL
Yeah this pause glitch work on SNES and its just make time enought make 5 skills.

[MASTER-88]

Mayhem 3 5 skills SNES done on console

Two glitch. Miner floor through glitch and pause glitch. Luckily this pause glitch work on SNES and its save just few important frames save 100%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siLBVH42LEk

[MASTER-88]

Newest playlist is updated. Rightnow i really cannot see many level possible improvement. We are did really good progress SNES and DOS version levels.

But new tips are always welcomed. I´ll read this topic and every tips will welcomed.  I´ll also hope this my 10 year progress will help DOS players make some new things up.

Most potential levels might be improvement:
Taxing 4: Never got work DOS strategty my SNES. But i got find different slide system which take one more skill but improve 2 skills over handtrap route

Mayhem 2: 18 skills might possible on SNES version too. My setup let one pixel remain

Mayhem 6: 9 skills
Its probably impossible or we need different releaserate manipulations, because SNES can´t be that sharp like DOS version. Otherwise same solution will work.

Sunsoft special 2: Richard Diaz are confirmed 100%. but my palying skills is no enought make 40 pixel perfect timing in one row

Sunsfot special 5: Slide glitch working but cannot make it any less skills what i did. So its pointless if i we cannot find better setup

EDIT:
I´ll ask what is this Mayhem 19 2 lost solutions (this is used genesis version). Wrampi are make only picture proof his completion
https://www.video-games-records.com/lemmings-mayhem-19-time-to-get-yup-record-r113554.html

I test slide and actual slide working, but its not let lemmings through first wall on SNES. Not test it genesis yet. Still wonder this proof, because i cannot find any theory working strategy. I see its never done on DOS version too.

[Turrican]

There is an alternative solution/method to save 100% on sunsoft 2 that I think is easier than Richard Diaz's solution , and also it can help you to save more skills. I had proposed that solution for a talisman for the Lemmings Redux version of the level . I will copy-paste my description of that method from that thread ( but I will use again spoiler tags for anyone that doesn't want to have the talisman solution spoiled ):

Spoiler

You use the method used by snc76976 in his TAS video, but in a way that it will help you save 100% instead of 80% that snc saves in his video.

link for the video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQiAl8hWWk

You need to create the staircase snc creates but in a way that extends lower (  closer to the steel floor ). As I said , reproducing this staircase is easy with the Neolemmix mechanisms ,  but the solution will become tricky at the end,  when the lemmings from the left hatch will reach the staircase and they will start going to the exit. In that case , to make your life easier do the following trick:
Use the three last lemmings to dig a wide pit that will have the steel floor as its lowest point, and the staircase as its highest point. Make it as wide as possible. When its finished assign one of these lemmings as a builder to build from the steel floor to the beginning of the staircase. In that case, the last lemmings will go to the exit too, and you will save 100% of the lemmings

Also some additional hints:

Spoiler

Your solution is not a speedrun solution , so you have the luxury to make the spaces between the diggers wider , especially at the beginning ( and also maybe to have a little lower release rate? ). You can even have 3 diggers digging at the begining instead of 2 , so you will have wider spaces. Also you need to save the builder for the final part of the solution , so instead of using it early like snc did , you can use Richard Diaz's method to make the lemmings of the right hatch land safely to the bottom  part of level. Generally you have to experiment , to find the best combination of the release rate and the spaces between the diggers.

[ccexplore]

I´ll ask what is this Mayhem 19 2 lost solutions (this is used genesis version). Wrampi are make only picture proof his completion
https://www.video-games-records.com/lemmings-mayhem-19-time-to-get-yup-record-r113554.html

Just a screenshot of the postlevel screen is pretty useless as proof IMHO, they are so easily faked.  More suspicious still is the strange way they cropped the proof screenshot.  Compare with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QpJRgXVpfI&feature=youtu.be&t=15010 which is I believe what the screen is supposed look like without any cropping.  (The password difference is just a US vs European difference.)

It's also possible the result was legitimate but actually from a different port (ie. not Genesis) where the level itself is different enough to allow for the result.  As you know, Lemmings have been ported to so many systems.

Unless Genesis has some major terrain or skill differences, then even if we assume (which I'm not sure is even possible; I'm almost 100% sure no) lemmings on that version can get up all the way offscreen and walk on the ceiling, there is still no place in the ceiling thin enough to bomb through using only 2 bombers.

[ccexplore]

Thinking about it a little more as I drove home, I now actually think maybe there is a way to do lose 2 after all on Mayhem 19, given what we knew about stuck climbers.  But need to do more testing to be sure, and whether there are enough builders available on this level to make it work is also at issue.

Spoiler

Basically if I remember correctly, I think if you get a builder stuck inside a wall, then have him build whenever he faces right but before he starts climbing while facing right, I think you can gradually get him further inside the wall, eventually far enough to blow away the first obstacle with just one bomber.  This relies on the known behavior that when a climber hits a ceiling, turns around and falls, at the point he turns around the game actually moves him 2 pixels away from the wall rather than just 1, which I think can be exploited to get the lemming gradually further into the wall.

If my idea works out it should work on SNES and DOS as well, but again need to do some testing first, maybe later tonight.  Maybe you can beat me to it too.