Lemmings SNES all levels max pointed (videos up) Update 6.10.2024.

[MASTER-88]

About fun 29
I am tested that a lot, but i probably not understand every things

"Then use the basher staircase trick (bash, then build to stop the bashing mid-stroke) to get up to the piece of wood leading to the pyramid.  At this point you can proceed same as your current solution (bash through pyramid, then 3 builders to reach exit)."

Did you really can make this last staircase like this. I test it a lot my SNES emulator and i can make this pretty much correct but that requires climber to up staircase.

My personal best Snes solution is just 13 skills. Its use climber but not staircase clip. I personally cannot make that staircase clip done my SNES version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldfr9xGcFQ8&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj2iavqxLhsm1cPpoklWfqch&index=29

[ccexplore]

"Then use the basher staircase trick (bash, then build to stop the bashing mid-stroke) to get up to the piece of wood leading to the pyramid.  At this point you can proceed same as your current solution (bash through pyramid, then 3 builders to reach exit)."

Did you really can make this last staircase like this. I test it a lot my SNES emulator and i can make this pretty much correct but that requires climber to up staircase.

Ok, I finally had a chance to test it out.  You're right, apparently that part doesn't quite work on SNES because the basher stroke's reach is one pixel further forward compared to DOS.  Apparently that's enough to make a difference.  On DOS, you'd start bashing as soon as you got up on the right edge of the step, and then assign builder in the middle of the second bash stroke.  (Sorry I missed describing this important detail.)  The first bash stroke apparently leaves two stray ground pixels near ground level that, together with the single build brick, end up being walkable ground with no gaps.  But on SNES the bash strokes reach one pixel further forward, so those stray ground pixels are not there anymore and you end up with a gap that prevents you from walking up.  And since you already started bashing as far right as the step you're standing on lets you, unfortunately you can't simply bash earlier to achieve the equivalent result.

Attached are pictures showing the difference results you get.  On the DOS picture, notice those two pixels of brown at and touching the yellow build brick.  On SNES those pixels are also removed so there's now a gap preventing you from walking up.

Moreover, it looks like the beginning part with the miner also doesn't quite work either.  SNES miner on first mining stroke only leaves a dent one pixel deep into ground, rather than two like on DOS.  It looks like that's just not deep enough to allow you to stop one miner with another miner mining in opposite direction at end of mining funnel.  At least I tried a lot on SNES with no success so far.

So looks like the DOS 12-skill solution won't work, and I don't have any ideas on a different solution at this point.

[ccexplore]

Or is anyone got 5 skills strategy working fun 27. Its come close, but not enought. Im hearing on DOS version could be just use 5.

Just to clear it up for everyone, this is what the DOS solution looks like.  It doesn't work on SNES because SNES digger needs more pixels below him to continue digging, so he won't be able to dig down while hanging onto just one thin column of pixels from the steel block like in DOS, as seen in screenshot.  Testing shows I need to shift the digging 2 more pixels left, but at that point the steel detection actually kicks in, and that will prevent you from digging all the way down as well.

You'd need to find a totally different way from the DOS solution in order to get 5 skills for SNES.  I can't think of one at the moment.

[MASTER-88]

I think Fun mode is perfected on SNES version
How about Tricky difficulty levels.
My current records is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjloIWT6wd0&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj1mqlmDSnHjmjdQAdh3ed-i

Tricky 1 (4 skills) Thats max pointed. Cannot slow enought
Tricky 2 (3 skills) Max pointed we all fall down snes version (genesis could be with two)
Tricky 3 (8 skills) I think this is max. This use pixel perfect trick turn lemmings back (also used taxing 29)
Tricky 4 (9 skills) I think max pointed pretty cool strategy
Tricky 5 (10 skills) You will need all those builders at end. Also two items is required break last ball
Tricky 6 (8 skills) I cannot think this level could be better.
Tricky 7 (12 skills) Just linear level
Tricky 8 (17 skills) I find many potential way improve, but not seems work on Snes version. This same way is used taxing 23
Tricky 9 (9 skills) No idea can this improvement, i think this is perfect
Tricky 10 (14 skills) My best also used mayhem 15
Tricky 11 (11 skills) This level have some potential. Yesterday i find alternate way make 10179 points, but that seems i cannot go 10 skill soultion
Alternate 10179 solution is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLruLqEfvEk
Tricky 12 (10 skills) I can´t find better
Tricky 13 (13 skills) This level have some potential because there is metals. But my 13 skill solution is pretty awesome and its also used mayhem 25
Tricky 14 (12 skills) I never make two lock method so this level is linear and pretty much max pointed
Tricky 15 (3 bombs) perfect
Tricky 16 (4 bombs, miner and basher) jsut perfect
Tricky 17 (2 bombs) perfect
Tricky 18 (90% & 3 skills)
Tricky 19 (5 skills)
Tricky 20 (7 skills)
Tricky 21 (14 skills) very linear level and definitely max pointed
Tricky 22 (10 skills) I plan very good solution. Its hard imagine this could be redo. 5 builders is mandatory pass lake
Tricky 23 (97% 2 climber & 2 floater remain) I cannot got 98% my snes. Also 9706 points seems impossible. This seems pretty perfect playin
Tricky 24 (7 skills) Pretty good method break blockers
Tricky 25 (13 skills) 100% saved cascade and this seems perfect
Tricky 26 (2 basher) Just perfect
Tricky 27 (10 skills) I think its perfect
Tricky 28 (5 skills) You cannot build that lock with one, so its perfect
Tricky 29 (5 skills) linear and pretty sure perfected
Tricky 30 (8 skills) linear level and i think this is perfect

[MASTER-88]

Tricky 11 10180 points (10 skills solution)
I find nice way slowdown that 2nd lemmings enought without wasting item.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnNxEueP0M

[ccexplore]

I don't have time this week to go into details on all the levels.  I'll just start by showing the DOS Lemming's 15-builder solution for Tricky 8.  SNES and DOS's builders behave quite the same so it is very likely to work on SNES as well.

The 3rd lemming out the entrance is the one who builds the bridge at lower-right corner.  Although it looks useless, that build bridge helps slightly delay later lemmings coming out of entrance by forcing them to spend time falling down the bridge.  It turns out to be critical in getting a 15-builder solution to work (for the longest time I could only do 16).  Once lemmings are able to walk fully past the first gap, of the first three to do so, the first two will each build left-to-right as shown to seal up the gap fully (the first will turn around after laying down one brick; the second will be able to build multiple steps to fully seal up the gap).  The third will build to reach the next level of platform.

Notice that near the top you can simply build repeatedly to build "through" the exit platform, instead of the long way around getting up two levels of platforms.  What I did turns out to be more efficient as it just takes 5 builders.

[MASTER-88]

Thats awesome stuff ccexplore. And i confirm its working on SNES version too.

I have to say that was really hard one and i have to make it again, because tricky 8 & taxing 23 is identically same level max points.

Here is video taxing 23 version. I counted 7 pixel perfect builder is required and much more very precise builders. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urptKBf0_ws

[MASTER-88]

"Then use the basher staircase trick (bash, then build to stop the bashing mid-stroke) to get up to the piece of wood leading to the pyramid.  At this point you can proceed same as your current solution (bash through pyramid, then 3 builders to reach exit)."

Did you really can make this last staircase like this. I test it a lot my SNES emulator and i can make this pretty much correct but that requires climber to up staircase.

Ok, I finally had a chance to test it out.  You're right, apparently that part doesn't quite work on SNES because the basher stroke's reach is one pixel further forward compared to DOS.  Apparently that's enough to make a difference.  On DOS, you'd start bashing as soon as you got up on the right edge of the step, and then assign builder in the middle of the second bash stroke.  (Sorry I missed describing this important detail.)  The first bash stroke apparently leaves two stray ground pixels near ground level that, together with the single build brick, end up being walkable ground with no gaps.  But on SNES the bash strokes reach one pixel further forward, so those stray ground pixels are not there anymore and you end up with a gap that prevents you from walking up.  And since you already started bashing as far right as the step you're standing on lets you, unfortunately you can't simply bash earlier to achieve the equivalent result.

Attached are pictures showing the difference results you get.  On the DOS picture, notice those two pixels of brown at and touching the yellow build brick.  On SNES those pixels are also removed so there's now a gap preventing you from walking up.

Moreover, it looks like the beginning part with the miner also doesn't quite work either.  SNES miner on first mining stroke only leaves a dent one pixel deep into ground, rather than two like on DOS.  It looks like that's just not deep enough to allow you to stop one miner with another miner mining in opposite direction at end of mining funnel.  At least I tried a lot on SNES with no success so far.

So looks like the DOS 12-skill solution won't work, and I don't have any ideas on a different solution at this point.

About staircaseclip. Its can done using 3 items on SNES. I did it correct using Miner, build & basher in that order. Im not sure can i did it with two item using miner and builders only. Have to test it emulator yet.

EDIT:
Tested better, but its look i can only tied my points, but not improve. One way is using miner, climber and miner or alternate miner builder & basher and skip climber.

My record video just simply use 3 builders and climber and its also easiest way and skip that trap gap. So if this can´t be solved 12 items solution cannot happen on SNES.

[MASTER-88]

Some research which not seems work well i wanted
Taxing 4 is somewhere interesting level and its also includes a lot version differences about hitboxes with wall traps.
16 skills seems just best possible on SNES version.  Fact is you will need all those 4 builders with begin. Its very close make its possible use three builders, but its let only one single build gap and thats trap will kill you. So 4 is mandatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwaQ99mEG-4&list=PL-Cn2MW-VOj136snR0XiQSGv4jxL4135B&index=4

Also tested some clips, but because you have to still cancel those using builders you will lost other skills as well. So this interesting look picture ate too much skills even you can build up. So this method is rejected.

[MASTER-88]

Mayhem 10 Pillar of Hercules improvement one more point 96% (3 lemmings lost) & 24 skills. This use much harder right side route. But i did several emulator test. You can,t build that last gap with 5 builders its let one gap aways and requires use 6 builder, so using easier route build left is not possible to improve my points anymore. So i have to use right goal

But using rightside goal you can make this building up one less skill used. But this route is also much more harder. But my lemmings skills is increased a lot, so thats not was huge trouble anymore.

I really think i am maxed everysingle levels expect sunsoft special 2. But like always new things could be found in future. Hope you guys help me max pointed everysingle levels.

Here is mayhem 10 9613 points solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MO5hL9Tqfk

[ccexplore]

I really think i am maxed everysingle levels expect sunsoft special 2. But like always new things could be found in future. Hope you guys help me max pointed everysingle levels.

Can you go compare your results with ours for DOS (here, and also here for max save % numbers), and then post here the exact list of all levels in Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem where we currently reported better results on DOS than yours?  This is the least you can do if you want help, it'd save us time from having to compile the list ourselves.

Although I don't have time to post any details until Saturday at the earliest, even looking at just Tricky, I believe the current DOS solutions for Tricky 5 and 12 can likely be adapted to SNES.  Tricky 5 will need an extra builder on SNES but that still totals to 9 skills, which is better than your current record's 10.  I also haven't ruled out Tricky 23 yet as I distinctly remember actually testing the DOS solution (or at least parts of it) first on SNES emulator because it has savestates (back when Lemmix didn't even exist yet so I'd have to play the level in DOSBox).  And we haven't looked closely at Taxing and Mayhem yet.

[MASTER-88]

I see this list on DOS. I personally never played DOS version. But i´ll check out those, but very hard compared all.

Mayhem 2 The Boiler room is improvement with one point. I simply use climber avoid use those builders. This make mayhem 2 also easier than previous solution. 9948 (17 skills)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbUxPBuGMo

Tricky 5 will need an extra builder on SNES but that still totals to 9 skills, which is better than your current record's 10.

Yeah 4 builders is mandatory at end. 2nd trouble is this last ball before ice lake. Its take two skills. I trying a lot break it with one. I can make very close using reverse digger, but its still not going break that net enought.

12 can likely be adapted to SNES.

Tricky 12 can be at least done less skills on genesis version. Here you need only one builder at starting. Snes will requires two ones. Im not know how about DOS version.

[ccexplore]

I see this list on DOS. I personally never played DOS version. But i´ll check out those, but very hard compared all.

Sure.  We're not asking you to play the DOS game.  If you prefer, you could instead provide us your list of results in the format of a flat list of skill counts used for each level, similar to this table at the top of our DOS topic:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Rating |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Total | (Old) |
|-------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Fun    |  1 10  3 11  3  2  2  3  3  3  3  5  3  5  9  9  4  5  6 11  3  7  5  3  4  5  5 10 12  2   157 |  120  |
|Tricky |  4  5  8  9  8  8 12 15  9 14 10  9 13 12  3  6  2  3  5  7  9 10 24  7 13  3 10  4  5  8   255 |  184  |
|Taxing |  9  8  9 14 12  4  8  9  3  8 12 10 10 22 11 19  9 12  5  9  7  5 15  6  7 12 12 16  8  7       |  242  |
|Mayhem | 28 18  4  4 18  9 14  9 13 31  9  5  6 18 14  2 12 20 13  7 28 16 18  3 16 17  3  7 21 38       |  320  |
|-------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

You don't even need to format it neatly like we did above, I literally just need a line of 30 numbers separated by spaces, one line for each rating.  I can then easily use Excel and so forth to make it easy to compare your numbers with ours above.  I just need your numbers for SNES.

Regarding the few levels you mentioned:

Mayhem 2 on DOS is 100%-able using the sliding glitch (aka "the wall zip trick").  The glitch itself definitely works on SNES, but exploiting it effectively requires bunching up the lemmings almost perfectly, which tends to require very precise release rate manipulations that might prove impossible on SNES since SNES doesn't let you change the release rate while paused.  More testing will be needed to see whether the DOS 100% solution is adaptable to SNES.

The current best solution on DOS for Tricky 5 doesn't use any skills to hold back the crowd.  It takes advantage of there being a lot of space in the level area to fit the entire stream of walking lemmings without them looping back onto itself, assuming you bump the release rate to 99 as quickly as you can as soon as the level starts.  You then perform most of the skills using lemmings near the back of the stream, letting the rest take their sweet time walking before they can catch up to your worker lemming again.  You'd mine down the 1st ball, bash through the 2nd and 3rd, then lay a single build brick follow by bashing to get through the 4th.  The DOS version lacks water so you can use just 2 builders to reach the island before the exit; on SNES you'd need 3, but it's really just one extra build brick plus 2 builders.  There are some additional details I've omitted here which I'll provide later when I have time.  Maybe you can start trying to work it out on your own based on what I've said so far.  SNES does have 100 lemmings rather than DOS's 80 which might impact this solution, as does the problem of likely not able to bump release rate directly from 20 to 99 before first lemming comes out.

The current best solution on DOS for Tricky 12 is very much like Fun 23 conceptually.  You bunch up the crowd near perfectly via adjusting release rate to a particular number (don't remember which) that works with the width of the starting area, then do the rest of the level without attempting to hold back the crowd with any additional skills.  You do need 2 builders on DOS to make a safe landing starting on the floor of the pit.  The DOS solution uses just 3 floaters.

Surprised that Genesis lets you make safe landing with just one builder, I guess either the initial position of the lemming from the entrance is lower, or the way they calculate fall distance starting from the entrance is slightly different resulting in a higher survivable fall there.

[namida]

Surprised that Genesis lets you make safe landing with just one builder, I guess either the initial position of the lemming from the entrance is lower, or the way they calculate fall distance starting from the entrance is slightly different resulting in a higher survivable fall there.

IIRC, you can do it with one builder on DOS, if you bash into the wall at the right first (then start building from inside the basher tunnel). Of course, that doesn't play nicely with the "bunch up the lemmings" idea...

[ccexplore]

Yes, I remember that and this is how you would avoid having to use all 50 floaters in the repeat of the level.  But like you said, that technique also makes it impossible to compress the lemmings to allow for a crowd-control-free solution, and I'm pretty sure you still need at least 3 floaters as well.

[edit: on further thought, maybe it's worth testing and see whether even without crowd compression, it might be possible to build over the gap without having any lemmings overtake the builder.  Kind of doubt it though.  Also definitely makes the next part much less likely, if not outright impossible, to work out as well.]

I'm fairly sure MASTER-88 is only talking about building from the floor of the pit, even for Genesis.  That's why I actually included the words "starting on the floor of the pit" in my sentence about needing 2 builders, I did remember the technique used for the repeat.