What made SuperLemmini good could make NeoLemmix great!

[ccexplore]

OK... so, if I make a 600 x 400 main menu graphic, would you be happy to consider it for inclusion?

I'll let namida comment in more details, but off top of my head, I think one major problem now is that parts of the main menu screen (eg. title at top, rating text/graphics) are already customizable by level packs, but supplied customizations are of course based on the current sizes and positionings of things.  Your 640x400 main menu graphic would effectively impose different sizes and placements that wouldn't work with the main menu screen customizations in existing level packs.

For reference, attached is what the DOS title screen would look like with corrective stretching applied (to mimic what the original hardware would effectively be doing).  It's definitely less squished than before (especially that title at the top), but I think compared to Amiga it is probably still slightly "squished".  But keep in mind that it features six boxes rather than Amiga's five, and it chooses to do two rows rather than trying to jam all six into one row.  It settles on four boxes on one row, which is less than Amiga's five, and thus would call for wider boxes than Amiga's.

[IchoTolot]

OK. Would it be possible to have preferred background colours as a selectable option (where the level creator has not specified one)? For example:

- Default based on style (this would be the default option)
- Black
- Dark Blue
- User Image (upload)

Every level in the game has a specified background, as every level has a main tileset theme that specifies it and this way it is ensured that the background color matches at least reasonably well with the terrain+objects so nothing becomes invisible.

That is the main concern of the background: Everything should always be visible! That's why it's bound to the tilesets (and therefore the levels) and not the user. Here the user option you proposed could really screw you over, as you are not sure anymore if your chosen background creates invisible terrain/objects.

Levels can also have custom background images over the normal background and they can be turned off, but the standard level specific background stays.

[Proxima]

It's worth pointing out that all of this is fully customisable on your own copy.

orig_crystal contains a text file called "theme" with exactly the following text:

LEMMINGS default

$COLORS
  MASK xF0F0F0
  MINIMAP xF0F0F0
  BACKGROUND x080810
  ONE_WAYS xF02020
  PICKUP_BORDER x4040E0
  PICKUP_INSIDE xF0F0F0
$END

To get that dark blue background on other styles, just copy the "background" line from this theme into another style's theme.

[WillLem]

It's worth pointing out that all of this is fully customisable on your own copy.

orig_crystal contains a text file called "theme" with exactly the following text:

LEMMINGS default

$COLORS
  MASK xF0F0F0
  MINIMAP xF0F0F0
  BACKGROUND x080810
  ONE_WAYS xF02020
  PICKUP_BORDER x4040E0
  PICKUP_INSIDE xF0F0F0
$END

To get that dark blue background on other styles, just copy the "background" line from this theme into another style's theme.

Thanks Proxima, I'll do that

[WillLem]

(Aside: Does anyone happen to have the code for SuperLemmini btw?)

Bump

[namida]

OK... so, if I make a 600 x 400 main menu graphic, would you be happy to consider it for inclusion?

The menu isn't a single graphic, but rather is made up of several graphics - some of which, individual packs have custom graphics for. It would be quite messy to replace it, so there would need to be a lot of support for this, not just "one person would like it changed". (By comparison, the in-game higher-resolution is likely to see wider support, and while it might be tricky code-wise, it shouldn't break any existing content.)

OK. Would it be possible to have preferred background colours as a selectable option (where the level creator has not specified one)? For example:

- Default based on style (this would be the default option)
- Black
- Dark Blue
- User Image (upload)

This is a feature that existed in the past (minus the "custom image" option, but allowing arbitrary color selection), and was removed because it was deemed unneccessary. Not a single person took issue with the removal of it, leading me to believe this is not a very widely-desired feature - and thus would not be worth the effort to reimplement. If things have changed and there is widespread demand for it now, I can reconsider this, but it's unlikely.

(Aside: Does anyone happen to have the code for SuperLemmini btw?)

There's a link to the source code right below the main download link, in the main SuperLemmini release topic: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1793.0

[ccexplore]

One thing we could consider for the "squished main menu graphics" issue is to actually modify the graphics parts to compress them in the horizontal direction, to get them back to the intended aspect ratio, at least for the default non-customized graphics.  So we still leave all the parts at the exact same positions as before, but narrower (with the now-unoccupied areas of graphics be left transparent).  Existing customizations would be left unaffected this way (and would look exactly the way it is today) although they'd probably look squished now by comparison to the defaults, but level authors could potentially update the graphics to account for this.  Alternatively but still along same lines of thought, we could also experiment with automatically always applying the graphics transformations this way as a user option, it might work reasonably well even on customized graphics.

[WillLem]

The menu isn't a single graphic, but rather is made up of several graphics - some of which, individual packs have custom graphics for. It would be quite messy to replace it, so there would need to be a lot of support for this, not just "one person would like it changed". (By comparison, the in-game higher-resolution is likely to see wider support, and while it might be tricky code-wise, it shouldn't break any existing content.)

One thing we could consider for the "squished main menu graphics" issue is to actually modify the graphics parts to compress them in the horizontal direction, to get them back to the intended aspect ratio, at least for the default non-customized graphics.  So we still leave all the parts at the exact same positions as before, but narrower (with the now-unoccupied areas of graphics be left transparent).  Existing customizations would be left unaffected this way (and would look exactly the way it is today) although they'd probably look squished now by comparison to the defaults, but level authors could potentially update the graphics to account for this.  Alternatively but still along same lines of thought, we could also experiment with automatically always applying the graphics transformations this way as a user option, it might work reasonably well even on customized graphics.

Every level in the game has a specified background, as every level has a main tileset theme that specifies it and this way it is ensured that the background color matches at least reasonably well with the terrain+objects so nothing becomes invisible.

It's worth pointing out that all of this is fully customisable on your own copy.

orig_crystal contains a text file called "theme" with exactly the following text:

LEMMINGS default

$COLORS
  MASK xF0F0F0
  MINIMAP xF0F0F0
  BACKGROUND x080810
  ONE_WAYS xF02020
  PICKUP_BORDER x4040E0
  PICKUP_INSIDE xF0F0F0
$END

To get that dark blue background on other styles, just copy the "background" line from this theme into another style's theme.

Thanks for this, guys. Your comments have helped me realised that, in fact, it's ridiculously easy to customise a lot of these things by playing around with the graphics and "theme" files in the styles folders.

By modifying the logo, background and menu items I was able to create the following (see attached "NLmenuWillLem). The Lemmings logo is smaller horizontally but now in the correct aspect. The menu items now appear slightly further away from each other, but if the alloted "size" for each could be increased by a few pixels each way, this could be easily remedied. Also note how I got around the need to keep the rank graphic card the same size - there are 2 Lemmings sharing this duty! I also sorted out the scroller text Lemmings so they're less stretched and adapted some of the colours to suit my own preferences, but this is a minor point.

Further to this, by changing the background colour in all of the default themes to 000030, I was able to get the dark blue colour I generally prefer (thanks again Proxima - ridiculously easy! - see attached "NLfun24WillLem). Also note the customised skills panel - this is an indication of what I'll be aiming for in the hi-res version. If you like it, let me know and I'll carry on creating the 2x res versions of this.

To be fair, the more I learn about NeoLemmix the more I realise how capable an engine it is. Keep up the great work!

Finally, I managed to get the menu_font to look like the Amiga text simply by doubling the vertical size (see attached menu_font2). However, it then only displayed half of each letter (of course!) I wonder whether the display aspect for font could be increased to 32 pixels height?

By the way, Namida - I'm playing through the Lemmings Plus packs at the mo - very nice work! I'll let you know how I get on

All best,

-WillLem

P.S.

(Aside: Does anyone happen to have the code for SuperLemmini btw?)

There's a link to the source code right below the main download link, in the main SuperLemmini release topic: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1793.0

Can't believe I missed this! Thanks!

[ccexplore]

By modifying the logo, background and menu items I was able to create the following (see attached "NLmenuWillLem). The Lemmings logo is smaller horizontally but now in the correct aspect. The menu items now appear slightly further away from each other, but if the alloted "size" for each could be increased by a few pixels each way, this could be easily remedied. Also note how I got around the need to keep the rank graphic card the same size - there are 2 Lemmings sharing this duty!

Well, I'm just glad you are able to customize your own copy to your very particular desired tastes.   Personally your version of main menu screen seems a bit too much open space for me, so I would not have compressed the title text and the boxes quite as much as you did (in fact I might just leave the boxes alone), and then I guess you wouldn't have liked the result as much.  So you can see, it's harder to come up with something that works for many people as opposed to just a single person.

By the way, your version now has wrong glyphs for the up/down arrows in the rank (rating) box, they turned into two F1s.

[WillLem]

By modifying the logo, background and menu items I was able to create the following (see attached "NLmenuWillLem). The Lemmings logo is smaller horizontally but now in the correct aspect. The menu items now appear slightly further away from each other, but if the alloted "size" for each could be increased by a few pixels each way, this could be easily remedied. Also note how I got around the need to keep the rank graphic card the same size - there are 2 Lemmings sharing this duty!

Well, I'm just glad you are able to customize your own copy to your very particular desired tastes.   Personally your version of main menu screen seems a bit too much open space for me, so I would not have compressed the title text and the boxes quite as much as you did (in fact I might just leave the boxes alone), and then I guess you wouldn't have liked the result as much.  So you can see, it's harder to come up with something that works for many people as opposed to just a single person.

By the way, your version now has wrong glyphs for the up/down arrows in the rank (rating) box, they turned into two F1s.

Legend! Thanks for pointing that out. My attention to detail is usually pretty good, I must have been very tired

I've now updated my post with the corrected graphic

[IchoTolot]

Congrats on your own version.

That's the beauty of the format change we did a while ago: Everything is customisable. So even if you don't fully agree with the standard here you are not stranded.

The standard should be good with most players, but you always have the option to optimise it for yourself. Just be wary which changes can have possible side-effects

[namida]

Anyway, it looks like most of the matters here are either sorted, or duplicates of existing issues. As such, I'm going to close this topic now. If there is still interest in any of the issues from it, feel free to create topics for those - one topic per subject. (It is absolutely acceptable to create multiple topics in quick succession on the Bugs / Suggestions board, if you have multiple ideas / bug reports at the same time - just as long as you aren't making multiple topics for the same issue, or creating new topics for an issue when one for that same issue was already closed due to being rejected.)